USA player red carded for contact to the head before wrapping arms (actually whilst wrapping arms). It was so marginal and so obviously a genuine tackle, rather than a shoulder charge, it was ridiculous. Penalty? Maybe. Yellow? If you have to. Red? Bollocks.
Cheers, Deebs. That’s odd; I thought a US player was red-carded ages ago, so thought there was another incident that should’ve been a red that wasn’t that you were talking about.
Someone in Holland/Turkey is exploding right now. Hammering by Ireland and they looked very good, especially getting it wide. Actually, pretty much all around the park. Very well played.
Deebs – There has been some wine consumed this afternoon/evening, so I might be unclear on what happened when.
We are on holiday in north Yorkshire, which is gorgeous, in case anyone was unaware of that fact. Yesterday I thought it was Thursday, or I would have put a new post up.
That was probably way better than anyone could have expected.
Red card was unfortunate – I wonder if Raynal was influenced by non -reds issued today in NZ vs Fiji and Eng vs Can (didn’t see either incident but general consensus on my timelines was yellow was fortunate or a bottle job).
Great to see Baloucoune score. Everyone now knows what he can do in open space. Probably a little too many maul tries for me. USA found it hard to defend. Great to see both Casey and Blade get a run at #9 – old school 100mph scrum half play (on the surface). Addison made a good contribution. McCloskey and Hume were good. Can’t say anyone played poorly.
After the performance vs England last weekend I thought USA would give a better account.
Still the main thing is to be in a situation where we’ve got 2-3 players in every position – and we seem to be progressing on that …
I’m with TomP here – in my memory Canada were traditionally better than USA – I’m thinking of the Gareth Rees, Al Charron, Dave(?) Lougheed years – giving NZ a fright in the 91 RWC.
But it’s been a while now since Canada were at that level, unfortunately.
Tomp, you’re right, it may be 12 Welsh players with the BIL instead of 8. Having no dog in that fight, I’m not keeping tabs on how many players of each nation get selected.
The point I was trying to make is that there is no depth in Wales as in Oz. And I deeply regret it. The best European team I ever saw were the Welsh from the 70s.
As I said, I’m afraid rugby is shrinking where it was strong and not really growing where it was a niche sport. Only 7 seems to develop and although it’s pleasant to watch, it’s not really my cup of tea.
flair, that was Argentina’s best team more or less. They beat the All Blacks last year and had 2 draws with Australia. We won the 6 Nations this year and were very close to the Grand Slam. 12 of the players in that triumph weren’t playing. The idea for coaches like Pivac is not so much depth now as depth in 2 years at the World Cup.
Those Wales teams of the 70s were amazing. My formative memory of the sport is Gareth and Phil and Gerald and Japes and Bobby and Pricey and all them. But Wales have won 4 Grand Slams in the last 16 years – easily the best return in the competition. You’ve set the team that played today against that most hallowed of sides. It’s a ridiculous comparison. Having said that, even that great Welsh side had trouble v the Pumas. When they met in 1976, Wales won 20-19.
Just read in the Guardian article about the game it’s 10 Welsh players with the BIL. What do I know?
You got me wrong. I never compared todays’ Welsh team (which, I agree, was crap) with the great ones from the 70s. I only regretted that the rugby strongholds are slowly vanishing.
Besides France few teams would play the Pumas (nor Romania, or Italy) in the 70’s. A bit like the Pacific Islands today, they weren’t considered part of the old boys club. And yet, they were good already. Not surprised they gave a scare to Wales.
Hrmm, whereas the Welsh teams of the 70s set the soul alight, the perfunctory Welsh wins of recent years, based on defence and low-risk rugby aren’t the same kettle of fish.
I’m sure Welsh fans don’t care, wins are wins, but they are not the same things at all.
2005 is certainly not now, but nor is it the 70s and it has to be pretty much the most romantic of all Grand Slams given the very hard earned underdog status and the free-flowing style.
CMW, I would need to go to youtube, I can’t remember games from this year, let alone from 2005.
Did they play like Merve the Swerve and Phil Bennet would?
I actually think that the most recent one is the only slam in which Wales were properly boring though we spent a lot of the Six Nations’ between slams being either boring (2014-19), crap (2006-7) or both (2010-11, some of 2014-18). 2008 had an awful lot of Shane and 2012 may not have been all that inspiring, but there were some good games in it and I can’t see that Wales were any less fun in it than other teams have been for theirs in the last 15 years or so.
This year’s non-slam was entertaining enough and the last game was one for the ages. Perhaps we’re fun again, but I expect us to veer wildly between entertaining and boring, good and crap, with the entertainment value not necessarily linked to results.
It’s certainly not true to say Welsh fans don’t care, there was a lot of moaning about ‘Warrenball’ from within Wales.
@Ticht – Well I’ve only seen the highlights of the 70s stuff, but on that basis it would be as close as anyone has managed that I can think of though obviously it was already a different game. I gather Wales had a pack that was often fairly dominant in the 70s though which the 2005 team had to get by without. Playing the way they did with any success turned out to be a flash in the pan of course, but it was a wonderful thing in itself.
Some of us lost good money backing Finn, Hogg and co to do something similar a few years ago…
Actually, I wish Scotland had Wales’ record, they have been terrific, if not always exciting.
But TomP, you need to let up, if you get posters who are fans of other nations (your nation) calling you out for relentless doing down of all things Scotland, you have to admit that you are the one with the problem.
BTW – I wasn’t trying to “set you straight” about Irish “Americans” – I’d assumed you were correct and it was only when I checked that I saw US were only fielding 2 Irish-born.
CMW, I think Finn and Hogg could still do something flash.
The likes of Sexton only got really good, like world class, when he was older than Finn is now*
@Ticht – I think they could too, but Townsend has moved the team away from the style that could have won it off the cuff. Largely because you now have a better pack than you did which is of course a good thing. They’ve also missed the 2005 boat in terms of winning a slam pretty much out of the blue having been shit for ages as they’ve now had a few years of not being shit (also a good thing) without winning it.
I would say that the Wales 2005 team had more in common with say Scotland 99 or Wales’ occasional better days in the 90s/early 2000s than they had with any 6N rugby played since. The amazing thing being that they got it right five times in a row. Others may disagree of course.
“I gather Wales had a pack that was often fairly dominant in the 70s though which the 2005 team had to get by without.”
Which might mean 80s France are a better fit for 70s Wales, I don’t know as I’m too young to have seen 70s Wales properly. I think there would have been differences in the French forward play especially and of course anyone ‘good’ closer in time was likely to have closer similarities to a 70s team (as long as they used their backs more than early 90s England).
“But it’s been a while now since Canada were at that level, unfortunately.”
They were highly entertaining in the 2015 World Cup though not successful of course. I always wonder if their early 90s team weren’t just a flash in the pan in the way that might be expected of a country with limited interest in the game – a good team comes along once in a while, but most of the time they’ll be pretty weak. Anyone know what sort of level they’d generally been before that team?
CMW, I think Toonie shifted the emphasis because, frankly, the skills weren’t there to execute the simple stuff at breakneck speed.
To be honest, short of the ABs performing at their best, and I’m thinking of the likes of Brodie Retallick picking up passes off his boots, short of that no one could play the rugby Toonie aspired to – it needed a team full of Hensons and Townsends, and that doesn’t tend to work
You’re probably right that it was too much to ask, but there must have been a little bit of you that sometimes thought that if they could get it right for a couple of games then maybe, just maybe, they could get it right for five…
Oh dog I wanted it to work, it would have seen us running around the outside of not only the 6N sides, but all the SH teams too – beating the ABs by outscoring them and running in a try from our 22 to do it?
ticht, it’s not about the bare stats. I really don’t understand what flair meant about Wales having no depth when looking at XXIII Pivac put out and comparing it to, say, the 6 Nations sides earlier this year.
Pivac has even said that’s what his plans were for the Autumn 2020, getting more players more caps and seeing who can do it and who can’t. At the moment he kind of has to do it because we’re without 10 Lions + 2 in AWJ and Tipuric + North and Halfpenny. And they didn’t beat a close to full-strength Argentina team but got a come from behind draw. A good effort to get back into it from what I can tell as I haven’t watched the game. Of course, I’d much prefer if we were chucking it about and glory daysing it to victory.
The stuff about the 70s is fine.but it’s over 40 years ago. New Zealand have changed the way they play since then as well. Everyone has. In some ways the game is better, in others not so good.
As for Scotland, I take the piss quite often but am really pleased when they do well and have said so numerous times on here. It’s good to have them back. If it’s your perception that I do them down all the time, fine. It’s the perception I have when flair talks about Wales, too.
trisk, I know very little about them and assumed they had 6 or 7 as there’d been a few before. It was all for a cheap gag. anyway There was a telling bit of commentary that Carty is the back-up 10 behind Giteau at whatever team they play for.
Ireland looked very capable – Keenan is turning into a proper international. I hadn’t realised he was a 7z player for a while. Coombes could be really special.
Gats thinks the Lionz might play the Stormers on Wednesday rather than SA’s A team. The Stormers don’t have a coaching panel at the moment because of the Covid so the players are coaching themselves. Other reports say there might be two games vs SA A so the Lionz have stiffer opposition.
Whatever happens this is a fairly unique tour and must be tough for all involved.
Similarities between Wales 70s and france 80s? All over the park. Both sets of packs were dirty bastards. and both sets of backs were full of speed, skill, and that je ne sais croisant. Scotlands problem? Pack is too nice. Front row all lovely likeable chaps.
Morning song, erfectly relevant, and almost a bit country for Thaum..
Tomp, with all due respect, how about you watch the game before commenting on it?
I did and Wales B were crap. Not only collectively but also individually. Hence my pretty straightforward deduction that there is no depth in Wales.
And don’t be fooled by their record, Argentina were poor too.
As for my point about rugby strongholds vanishing, it seems to me rugby is slowly dying in places like Scotland, Wales, Australia , Canada etc…where it used to be much stronger. I deeply regret it and would be very happy to be proven wrong.
I mesure the degree of success of the sport by the number of people playing, the numbers of spectators and the geographic extension. Not by the money involved, thank you.
It seems only in Japan and France ( where rugby is now played almost everywhere in the country) is rugby attracting new interest.
“Hence my pretty straightforward deduction that there is no depth in Wales.”
Sometimes Wales A are crap and sometimes they’re good. Perhaps we have tremendous depth at being hopelessly inconsistent.
“Argentina were poor too.”
They have the excuse of the sending off. And they were good at the breakdown though it was hard not to be what with Wales’ non-existent approach to the same. The rest of their game was riddled with mistakes, their kicking game was certainly crap and they probably would have won if they’d gone for position (and quite probably tries) rather than taking long shots at goal. So yes, crap.
Reading back – I’m probably one of the few here to have seen the 70s Welsh team – although I think my understanding of what I was watching is better now. As SBT says – skillful backs and hard forwards (and a few of the backs were hard too…)
If anything- they had a will to win or way to eke out wins – John Taylor in 71 anyone – when it wasn’t all fantastic. The superficial view – looking back is that it was all Bennett side steps and TGR Davies nipping in at the corner. But as ever it was off the back of a dominant pack.
Flair, I think you’re right, certainly we in Scotland are having a tough time of it, there is only one club that I know of that turns out as many teams as they did back when I was playing – that’s the club HBH played for, every other one now has a firsts and maybe a seconds who play one or two fixtures. Several teams in the Scottish Borders are really struggling to keep afloat, outside the cities that was the “heartlands” of rugby in Scotland.
Reading other forums has made me think that Australia is really struggling, the kids want to play in the AFL rather than playing Union.
When I last spoke to Irish fans at our long-standing fixture between a Scottish and Irish club they said the game is healthy in Dublin from a professional point of view, but the clubs have fewer teams. I read an article by Willie John McBride saying similar things about the game in Ulster.
I don’t think, or rather hope, that things aren’t going to get worse, but the thing I’ve witnessed in my hometown club is that there is no sense of camaraderie, after a game the players have a beer and go off on their own ways. We used to have the clubhouse heaving all night on a Saturday.
There were great scenes after the England game yesterday, Marcus Smith was told after he was subbed that he had been called up for the Lions. The reaction from his team mates when he was being interviewed was lovely – they were all applauding and cheering him – they had only just found out themselves.
ticht, I think player numbers are down in England as well. One problem is in the leagues you need at least 4 on the bench – and a minimum of two front row I think – and this has a trickle down effect on the sides lower down. You get cancellations cos a prop has to go up and you can’t field a registered front row. And that has a knock-on on interest from players. They drift away as they’re not playing games etc. I’d imagine something similar happens in Scottish league rugby as well.
I’ve often thought there’s also the effect of the widening of tertiary education. More young players move away from home and stop playing. Plus there’re changes in working patterns etc etc
In Ireland, and trisk knows much more than me about this, the IRFU and the provincial branches are very active in pushing the game. The Dublin city sides are still strong at league level – there are 6 that play in the top 2 leagues within 3 kms of where I’m living – but clubs within 30 km of the city like Greystones and Skerries have declined. However, they’re getting more kids from non-strongholds in, places like Naas, Tullow and the like.
In Munster there’s the rise of the West Cork players, Coombes, Hodnett and so on. I think it takes a lot of hard work and it’s no so easy as it perhaps once was.
Australian rugby’s often gone through very low troughs. In the 1970s they invited Ray Williams of the WRU over to teach them how to coach.
What surprised me in SA was how in Gauteng club rugby was really low in numbers. In the Western and Eastern Capes it was better. The Bulls have assigned there squad players to club sides now so I hope that changes something there.
Speaking of HBH’s club, Watsonians, they have signed backrower Kwagga van Niekerk who played for Scotland U20s, and DeeBee Lions U20 fly half Mark Morrison, he is also SQ.
If they kick on I’d expect them to make an appearance for Edinburgh, though the backrow is incredibly competitive there.
Ovally Balls 
USA player red carded for contact to the head before wrapping arms (actually whilst wrapping arms). It was so marginal and so obviously a genuine tackle, rather than a shoulder charge, it was ridiculous. Penalty? Maybe. Yellow? If you have to. Red? Bollocks.
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♫ Oh, Expro would hate this ♫
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Cheers, Deebs. That’s odd; I thought a US player was red-carded ages ago, so thought there was another incident that should’ve been a red that wasn’t that you were talking about.
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Oops! Bit of a mistake from the Yanks to carry on after 80 mins.
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Someone in Holland/Turkey is exploding right now. Hammering by Ireland and they looked very good, especially getting it wide. Actually, pretty much all around the park. Very well played.
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Thauma, I’m talking about the bloke who was red carded. I know there is the technical application of the law, but it was a shit decision all round.
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Deebs – There has been some wine consumed this afternoon/evening, so I might be unclear on what happened when.
We are on holiday in north Yorkshire, which is gorgeous, in case anyone was unaware of that fact. Yesterday I thought it was Thursday, or I would have put a new post up.
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That was probably way better than anyone could have expected.
Red card was unfortunate – I wonder if Raynal was influenced by non -reds issued today in NZ vs Fiji and Eng vs Can (didn’t see either incident but general consensus on my timelines was yellow was fortunate or a bottle job).
Great to see Baloucoune score. Everyone now knows what he can do in open space. Probably a little too many maul tries for me. USA found it hard to defend. Great to see both Casey and Blade get a run at #9 – old school 100mph scrum half play (on the surface). Addison made a good contribution. McCloskey and Hume were good. Can’t say anyone played poorly.
After the performance vs England last weekend I thought USA would give a better account.
Still the main thing is to be in a situation where we’ve got 2-3 players in every position – and we seem to be progressing on that …
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Trisk
After the performance vs England last weekend I thought USA would give a better account.
I thought it was poor by England rather than good from US. After all, Wales had thrashed Canada, who are generally better rated than the US.
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The Yanks are better than the Canucks, thaum. Though I have no idea if this was the best the Americans could put out.
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@thaum
I’m with TomP here – in my memory Canada were traditionally better than USA – I’m thinking of the Gareth Rees, Al Charron, Dave(?) Lougheed years – giving NZ a fright in the 91 RWC.
But it’s been a while now since Canada were at that level, unfortunately.
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Whatever happened to Mr Dogbone, our resident Canadian?
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Oh well, .,. probably wrong … off to bed! nn
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BB – don’t know; shame.
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Tomp, you’re right, it may be 12 Welsh players with the BIL instead of 8. Having no dog in that fight, I’m not keeping tabs on how many players of each nation get selected.
The point I was trying to make is that there is no depth in Wales as in Oz. And I deeply regret it. The best European team I ever saw were the Welsh from the 70s.
As I said, I’m afraid rugby is shrinking where it was strong and not really growing where it was a niche sport. Only 7 seems to develop and although it’s pleasant to watch, it’s not really my cup of tea.
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flair, that was Argentina’s best team more or less. They beat the All Blacks last year and had 2 draws with Australia. We won the 6 Nations this year and were very close to the Grand Slam. 12 of the players in that triumph weren’t playing. The idea for coaches like Pivac is not so much depth now as depth in 2 years at the World Cup.
Those Wales teams of the 70s were amazing. My formative memory of the sport is Gareth and Phil and Gerald and Japes and Bobby and Pricey and all them. But Wales have won 4 Grand Slams in the last 16 years – easily the best return in the competition. You’ve set the team that played today against that most hallowed of sides. It’s a ridiculous comparison. Having said that, even that great Welsh side had trouble v the Pumas. When they met in 1976, Wales won 20-19.
I agree that Australia are rubbish.
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Oh, and also, no may about it, flair. It’s 10 in the squad now plus AWJ and Tipuric who were injured.
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Just read in the Guardian article about the game it’s 10 Welsh players with the BIL. What do I know?
You got me wrong. I never compared todays’ Welsh team (which, I agree, was crap) with the great ones from the 70s. I only regretted that the rugby strongholds are slowly vanishing.
Besides France few teams would play the Pumas (nor Romania, or Italy) in the 70’s. A bit like the Pacific Islands today, they weren’t considered part of the old boys club. And yet, they were good already. Not surprised they gave a scare to Wales.
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What do you mean the rugby strongholds are slowly vanishing? If you mean the money in the game is in England, France and Japan, I agree.
Wales toured Argentina in 1968 and lost the series. They knew how good they were.
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Hrmm, whereas the Welsh teams of the 70s set the soul alight, the perfunctory Welsh wins of recent years, based on defence and low-risk rugby aren’t the same kettle of fish.
I’m sure Welsh fans don’t care, wins are wins, but they are not the same things at all.
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2005 is certainly not now, but nor is it the 70s and it has to be pretty much the most romantic of all Grand Slams given the very hard earned underdog status and the free-flowing style.
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CMW, I would need to go to youtube, I can’t remember games from this year, let alone from 2005.
Did they play like Merve the Swerve and Phil Bennet would?
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I actually think that the most recent one is the only slam in which Wales were properly boring though we spent a lot of the Six Nations’ between slams being either boring (2014-19), crap (2006-7) or both (2010-11, some of 2014-18). 2008 had an awful lot of Shane and 2012 may not have been all that inspiring, but there were some good games in it and I can’t see that Wales were any less fun in it than other teams have been for theirs in the last 15 years or so.
This year’s non-slam was entertaining enough and the last game was one for the ages. Perhaps we’re fun again, but I expect us to veer wildly between entertaining and boring, good and crap, with the entertainment value not necessarily linked to results.
It’s certainly not true to say Welsh fans don’t care, there was a lot of moaning about ‘Warrenball’ from within Wales.
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“It’s certainly not true to say Welsh fans don’t care, there was a lot of moaning about ‘Warrenball’ from within Wales.”
TomP needs to lay off the bare stats and listen to the people for a bit, then.
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@Ticht – Well I’ve only seen the highlights of the 70s stuff, but on that basis it would be as close as anyone has managed that I can think of though obviously it was already a different game. I gather Wales had a pack that was often fairly dominant in the 70s though which the 2005 team had to get by without. Playing the way they did with any success turned out to be a flash in the pan of course, but it was a wonderful thing in itself.
Some of us lost good money backing Finn, Hogg and co to do something similar a few years ago…
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Actually, I wish Scotland had Wales’ record, they have been terrific, if not always exciting.
But TomP, you need to let up, if you get posters who are fans of other nations (your nation) calling you out for relentless doing down of all things Scotland, you have to admit that you are the one with the problem.
Give it a rest, eh?
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@TomP
BTW – I wasn’t trying to “set you straight” about Irish “Americans” – I’d assumed you were correct and it was only when I checked that I saw US were only fielding 2 Irish-born.
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CMW, I think Finn and Hogg could still do something flash.
The likes of Sexton only got really good, like world class, when he was older than Finn is now*
*or around this age anyway
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@Ticht – I think they could too, but Townsend has moved the team away from the style that could have won it off the cuff. Largely because you now have a better pack than you did which is of course a good thing. They’ve also missed the 2005 boat in terms of winning a slam pretty much out of the blue having been shit for ages as they’ve now had a few years of not being shit (also a good thing) without winning it.
I would say that the Wales 2005 team had more in common with say Scotland 99 or Wales’ occasional better days in the 90s/early 2000s than they had with any 6N rugby played since. The amazing thing being that they got it right five times in a row. Others may disagree of course.
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“I gather Wales had a pack that was often fairly dominant in the 70s though which the 2005 team had to get by without.”
Which might mean 80s France are a better fit for 70s Wales, I don’t know as I’m too young to have seen 70s Wales properly. I think there would have been differences in the French forward play especially and of course anyone ‘good’ closer in time was likely to have closer similarities to a 70s team (as long as they used their backs more than early 90s England).
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“But it’s been a while now since Canada were at that level, unfortunately.”
They were highly entertaining in the 2015 World Cup though not successful of course. I always wonder if their early 90s team weren’t just a flash in the pan in the way that might be expected of a country with limited interest in the game – a good team comes along once in a while, but most of the time they’ll be pretty weak. Anyone know what sort of level they’d generally been before that team?
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CMW, I think Toonie shifted the emphasis because, frankly, the skills weren’t there to execute the simple stuff at breakneck speed.
To be honest, short of the ABs performing at their best, and I’m thinking of the likes of Brodie Retallick picking up passes off his boots, short of that no one could play the rugby Toonie aspired to – it needed a team full of Hensons and Townsends, and that doesn’t tend to work
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You’re probably right that it was too much to ask, but there must have been a little bit of you that sometimes thought that if they could get it right for a couple of games then maybe, just maybe, they could get it right for five…
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Oh dog I wanted it to work, it would have seen us running around the outside of not only the 6N sides, but all the SH teams too – beating the ABs by outscoring them and running in a try from our 22 to do it?
I’d take that
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ticht, it’s not about the bare stats. I really don’t understand what flair meant about Wales having no depth when looking at XXIII Pivac put out and comparing it to, say, the 6 Nations sides earlier this year.
Pivac has even said that’s what his plans were for the Autumn 2020, getting more players more caps and seeing who can do it and who can’t. At the moment he kind of has to do it because we’re without 10 Lions + 2 in AWJ and Tipuric + North and Halfpenny. And they didn’t beat a close to full-strength Argentina team but got a come from behind draw. A good effort to get back into it from what I can tell as I haven’t watched the game. Of course, I’d much prefer if we were chucking it about and glory daysing it to victory.
The stuff about the 70s is fine.but it’s over 40 years ago. New Zealand have changed the way they play since then as well. Everyone has. In some ways the game is better, in others not so good.
As for Scotland, I take the piss quite often but am really pleased when they do well and have said so numerous times on here. It’s good to have them back. If it’s your perception that I do them down all the time, fine. It’s the perception I have when flair talks about Wales, too.
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trisk, I know very little about them and assumed they had 6 or 7 as there’d been a few before. It was all for a cheap gag. anyway There was a telling bit of commentary that Carty is the back-up 10 behind Giteau at whatever team they play for.
Ireland looked very capable – Keenan is turning into a proper international. I hadn’t realised he was a 7z player for a while. Coombes could be really special.
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Gats thinks the Lionz might play the Stormers on Wednesday rather than SA’s A team. The Stormers don’t have a coaching panel at the moment because of the Covid so the players are coaching themselves. Other reports say there might be two games vs SA A so the Lionz have stiffer opposition.
Whatever happens this is a fairly unique tour and must be tough for all involved.
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Similarities between Wales 70s and france 80s? All over the park. Both sets of packs were dirty bastards. and both sets of backs were full of speed, skill, and that je ne sais croisant. Scotlands problem? Pack is too nice. Front row all lovely likeable chaps.
Morning song, erfectly relevant, and almost a bit country for Thaum..
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Tomp, with all due respect, how about you watch the game before commenting on it?
I did and Wales B were crap. Not only collectively but also individually. Hence my pretty straightforward deduction that there is no depth in Wales.
And don’t be fooled by their record, Argentina were poor too.
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As for my point about rugby strongholds vanishing, it seems to me rugby is slowly dying in places like Scotland, Wales, Australia , Canada etc…where it used to be much stronger. I deeply regret it and would be very happy to be proven wrong.
I mesure the degree of success of the sport by the number of people playing, the numbers of spectators and the geographic extension. Not by the money involved, thank you.
It seems only in Japan and France ( where rugby is now played almost everywhere in the country) is rugby attracting new interest.
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“Wales B were crap.”
There should be no debate about that.
“Not only collectively but also individually.”
Tomos Williams was good.
“Hence my pretty straightforward deduction that there is no depth in Wales.”
Sometimes Wales A are crap and sometimes they’re good. Perhaps we have tremendous depth at being hopelessly inconsistent.
“Argentina were poor too.”
They have the excuse of the sending off. And they were good at the breakdown though it was hard not to be what with Wales’ non-existent approach to the same. The rest of their game was riddled with mistakes, their kicking game was certainly crap and they probably would have won if they’d gone for position (and quite probably tries) rather than taking long shots at goal. So yes, crap.
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Reading back – I’m probably one of the few here to have seen the 70s Welsh team – although I think my understanding of what I was watching is better now. As SBT says – skillful backs and hard forwards (and a few of the backs were hard too…)
If anything- they had a will to win or way to eke out wins – John Taylor in 71 anyone – when it wasn’t all fantastic. The superficial view – looking back is that it was all Bennett side steps and TGR Davies nipping in at the corner. But as ever it was off the back of a dominant pack.
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“a few of the backs were hard too”
JPR was hewn from granite.
Seemingly there are twenty something cases of Covid in the Boks camp, 14 players including Kolisi have tested positive.
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CMW, Sounds like there’s room for improvement in both sides. Which is good news for both sets of coaches.
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Flair, I think you’re right, certainly we in Scotland are having a tough time of it, there is only one club that I know of that turns out as many teams as they did back when I was playing – that’s the club HBH played for, every other one now has a firsts and maybe a seconds who play one or two fixtures. Several teams in the Scottish Borders are really struggling to keep afloat, outside the cities that was the “heartlands” of rugby in Scotland.
Reading other forums has made me think that Australia is really struggling, the kids want to play in the AFL rather than playing Union.
When I last spoke to Irish fans at our long-standing fixture between a Scottish and Irish club they said the game is healthy in Dublin from a professional point of view, but the clubs have fewer teams. I read an article by Willie John McBride saying similar things about the game in Ulster.
I don’t think, or rather hope, that things aren’t going to get worse, but the thing I’ve witnessed in my hometown club is that there is no sense of camaraderie, after a game the players have a beer and go off on their own ways. We used to have the clubhouse heaving all night on a Saturday.
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The centres were often hard men as well. Arthur Lewis and Gravell are the two that most easily come to mind.
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There were great scenes after the England game yesterday, Marcus Smith was told after he was subbed that he had been called up for the Lions. The reaction from his team mates when he was being interviewed was lovely – they were all applauding and cheering him – they had only just found out themselves.
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ticht, I think player numbers are down in England as well. One problem is in the leagues you need at least 4 on the bench – and a minimum of two front row I think – and this has a trickle down effect on the sides lower down. You get cancellations cos a prop has to go up and you can’t field a registered front row. And that has a knock-on on interest from players. They drift away as they’re not playing games etc. I’d imagine something similar happens in Scottish league rugby as well.
I’ve often thought there’s also the effect of the widening of tertiary education. More young players move away from home and stop playing. Plus there’re changes in working patterns etc etc
In Ireland, and trisk knows much more than me about this, the IRFU and the provincial branches are very active in pushing the game. The Dublin city sides are still strong at league level – there are 6 that play in the top 2 leagues within 3 kms of where I’m living – but clubs within 30 km of the city like Greystones and Skerries have declined. However, they’re getting more kids from non-strongholds in, places like Naas, Tullow and the like.
In Munster there’s the rise of the West Cork players, Coombes, Hodnett and so on. I think it takes a lot of hard work and it’s no so easy as it perhaps once was.
Australian rugby’s often gone through very low troughs. In the 1970s they invited Ray Williams of the WRU over to teach them how to coach.
What surprised me in SA was how in Gauteng club rugby was really low in numbers. In the Western and Eastern Capes it was better. The Bulls have assigned there squad players to club sides now so I hope that changes something there.
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there their they’re
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Speaking of HBH’s club, Watsonians, they have signed backrower Kwagga van Niekerk who played for Scotland U20s, and DeeBee Lions U20 fly half Mark Morrison, he is also SQ.
If they kick on I’d expect them to make an appearance for Edinburgh, though the backrow is incredibly competitive there.
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