Well, only caught the “highlights” of SAA vs Lions and it didn’t look very good. Unless, we were deliberately playing piss-poor in which case it was a huge success! All that bashing at the line when the opposition are down 2 didn’t make sense.
If I were the type to show clips of matches to the lads I coach, I’d show them what de Allende does for Nkosi’s try – running hard and fast in a straight line notionally supporting but effectively cutting off the defenders. Very simple and very clever.
We also used to have heated debates about how to pronounce ‘McGrath’. On the telly the commentators would always say “‘Paul McGraaaa” but we were convinced with was McGraTH. So we asked our (Irish) chemistry teacher who said we were right. He was usually pissed, though, so I wouldn’t read too much into it.
Craigs, Daly had a good game last night, I imagine it to between him and Harris for the 13 shirt with perhaps the other one benching, Harris covers wing, Daly wing and fullback.
Like I say, I hope Smith can play his way onto the bench for the tests, though I fear Gats will stick with Farrell as that cover option, whether he starts or not.
Stormers – 15 Sergeal Petersen, 14 Seabelo Senatla, 13 Rikus Pretorius, 12 Dan du Plessis, 11 Edwill van der Merwe, 10 Tim Swiel, 9 Godlen Masimla, 8 Evan Roos, 7 Johan du Toit, 6 Nama Xaba, 5 JD Schickerling, 4 Ernst van Rhyn (captain), 3 Neethling Fouche, 2 JJ Kotze, 1 Leon Lyons.
Subs (from): 16 Andre-Hugo Venter, 17 Kwenzo Blose, 18 Sazi Sandi, 19 Justin Basson, 20 Marcel Theunissen, 21 Thomas Bursey, 22 Abner van Reenen, 23 Juan de Jongh, 24 Lee-Marvin Mazibuko, 25 Niel Otto, 26 Leolin Zas, 27 Cornel Smit.
Swiel is an ex-Harlequins player at outside half. The blindside is PS du Toit’s baby brother. Reserve hooker is very young and played SA Under 20 last month, he’s also AJ Venter’s son.
Loads of pace in the back three. Evan Roos is a good prospect at 8.
The commentators said Moron for Kevin Moran, the Irish centre-half who get sent off for Man U for chopping down Peter Reid when he was through on goal in the FA Cup final in the 80s. Presumably he was slower than Peter Reid, Maradona must be shaking his head. Anyway that’s pretty conclusive that the other way is correct.
AIUI, Gaelic words generally have the emphasis on the first syllable, hence MORan. But I’ve never heard a real Irish person named Moran pronounce their name that way: it’s always MorAN.
Well he got sent off. It was a dangerous tackle in the first place, but the commentator at the time spoke about ‘denying a goal-scoring opportunity’ so that side of it was definitely an issue and though I think you’re right that didn’t make it an automatic red till a bit later it didn’t make it not one either.
Moran – is Mor-un not Muh-raan. Stress on first syllable
McGrath – is M-Grah’ – short ‘A’ and stress on “gra” and not McGraarr
Sometimes though you do get localised pronunciations – eg people called “Walsh” called colloquially “Welsh” or a surname will be pronounced closer to it’s Irish version than the English transliteration (tends to happen as you go wes(h)t
I was thinking that Aussie who’s a national hero for murdering South African POWs and civilians in the Boer War was a Moran, but remembered he’s a Morant. Film about him with Alf from Home and Away in it though not as him. Anyway I guess to be fair to him it wasn’t something you could expect to get executed for in them days.
Craigs, Nkosi is pronounced the way you would say ‘in’ but with a Kiwi accent, if that makes sense. It’s a sound midway between in and un. Definitely not Na-Kosi, although plenty of South Africans of a paler hue would say that because they can’t get their tongues around it. It was the same for President Thabo Mbeki, (pronounced i/ummmbeki) often cringingly referred to as President Ma-Beki.
We should just be thankful that Conor McNamara doesn’t have to commentate on a match played in Vereeniging.
There was a weird thing on the post-match analysis part on Sky. The team, McNamara, Warbs and Greenwood, are in Britain and Sarra Elgan and Bryan Habana are doing pitchside in SA. After the match Sam Warburton rushes back to the sofa but they then did a bit with Will Greenwood pretending to talk to Bryan Habana pitchside after the game. It was all greenscreened up and It’s quite a strange effect.
@OT – I’ve looked it up and Doug from Neighbours was in it too. Not in the same league as Alf of course though it turns out he’s Jason Donovan’s dad in real life.
I notice Wales U20s have a lad Costelow – now that’s much closer to how “Costello” is pronounced in Ireland. – rather than Co-stello
And who can forget the Beeb struggling with jockey Jim Culloty (of these parts) – I think it was Claire Balding initially calling him an Italian style Cu-lotti rather than the Cull-uhtee in this neck of the woods.
Comments down here on last night’s match reckon that Morne Steyn is a sleeper agent for the Lions and Faf was lousy. Also Wiese is overrated and Big Trevor goes from 1st choice to fired into the sun at tighthead. Bizarrely, some even think Dweba is crap, despite a barnstorming debut until he got subbed.
Agreed Steyn is a stopgap 10 and Nyakane is a few weeks from being properly match fit. Wiese is okay, nothing more, but Dweba is firmly in the mix going forward.
For me, I was pretty happy with the side, given the preparation woes we’ve had. The cards late in the first half and PS du Toit going off early in the second definitely disrupted us, as did running out of puff because of the lack of matches. Some here saying our attack is blunt, but I’ll be happy enough when Pollard and Mapimpi are back in the side.
Malherbe at TH, with Vincent Koch on the bench will restore some power there, whilst there is hope that Lood de Jager and RG Snyman will be back in the mix, if not next weekend then for the 2nd Test. Some would like to see Dan du Preez given a run at 8. I don’t rate him, but mainly on his brain dead play whilst he was at the Sharks. No idea if he’s got better at Sale.
Ovally Balls 
Going to get more beer out of the fridge
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Well, only caught the “highlights” of SAA vs Lions and it didn’t look very good. Unless, we were deliberately playing piss-poor in which case it was a huge success! All that bashing at the line when the opposition are down 2 didn’t make sense.
If I were the type to show clips of matches to the lads I coach, I’d show them what de Allende does for Nkosi’s try – running hard and fast in a straight line notionally supporting but effectively cutting off the defenders. Very simple and very clever.
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If Eddie Jones was Lions coach they’d win all their games.
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Trisk – that blocking line was very good.
Is it Enkosi or Nakosi? I thought the first but the commentators said the latter.
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The n at the beginning should be like the sound at the end of sing. No vowel before so the second one is probably closer.
They don’t pronounce du Toit or Wiese very well either so I wouldn’t worry too much about it.
My favourite was how Nick Mullins used to pronounce Francois Hougaard’s family name. Not close but entertaining.
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We used to have 2 Michael Morans in my year at school. One pronounced his surname “More-on” and the other pronounced his surname “MorAN”.
I have no idea who was right.
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Tomp – some commentators can’t say ‘Maro’, ‘Tuilagi’ or ‘Craigs’ so it’s always worth checking.
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I have no idea who was right.
Both wrong. It’s MOran.
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We also used to have heated debates about how to pronounce ‘McGrath’. On the telly the commentators would always say “‘Paul McGraaaa” but we were convinced with was McGraTH. So we asked our (Irish) chemistry teacher who said we were right. He was usually pissed, though, so I wouldn’t read too much into it.
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Things are getting serious
DHL STORMERS v THE BRITISH & IRISH LIONS
Stuart Hogg – captain (Exeter Chiefs, Scotland) #783
Josh Adams (Cardiff Rugby, Wales) #836
Elliot Daly (Saracens, England) #822
Robbie Henshaw (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #824
Duhan van der Merwe (Worcester Warriors, Scotland) #841
Marcus Smith (Harlequins, England)
Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors, Scotland) #843
Rory Sutherland (Worcester Warriors, Scotland) #840
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, England) #851
Tadhg Furlong (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #818
Adam Beard (Ospreys, Wales) #852
Jonny Hill (Exeter Chiefs, England) #845
Tadhg Beirne (Munster Rugby, Ireland) #838
Hamish Watson (Edinburgh Rugby, Scotland) #847
Jack Conan (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #839
Replacements:
Jamie George (Saracens, England) #819
Mako Vunipola (Saracens, England) #787
Zander Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors, Scotland) #848
Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys, Wales) #761
Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs, England) #849
Gareth Davies (Scarlets, Wales) #850
Chris Harris (Gloucester Rugby, Scotland) #844
Louis Rees-Zammit (Gloucester Rugby, Wales) #846
Biggar wrapped in cotton wool, presumably.
I would love for Smith to have an absolute blinder
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Ticht – Daly also seems to be cementing his place.
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Craigs, Daly had a good game last night, I imagine it to between him and Harris for the 13 shirt with perhaps the other one benching, Harris covers wing, Daly wing and fullback.
Like I say, I hope Smith can play his way onto the bench for the tests, though I fear Gats will stick with Farrell as that cover option, whether he starts or not.
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Ticht – if he gets his chance I hope he takes it. It would be great to see him compete with Ford for the no 10 England shirt.
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Sorry everyone, I made it all about England again.
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Stormers – 15 Sergeal Petersen, 14 Seabelo Senatla, 13 Rikus Pretorius, 12 Dan du Plessis, 11 Edwill van der Merwe, 10 Tim Swiel, 9 Godlen Masimla, 8 Evan Roos, 7 Johan du Toit, 6 Nama Xaba, 5 JD Schickerling, 4 Ernst van Rhyn (captain), 3 Neethling Fouche, 2 JJ Kotze, 1 Leon Lyons.
Subs (from): 16 Andre-Hugo Venter, 17 Kwenzo Blose, 18 Sazi Sandi, 19 Justin Basson, 20 Marcel Theunissen, 21 Thomas Bursey, 22 Abner van Reenen, 23 Juan de Jongh, 24 Lee-Marvin Mazibuko, 25 Niel Otto, 26 Leolin Zas, 27 Cornel Smit.
Swiel is an ex-Harlequins player at outside half. The blindside is PS du Toit’s baby brother. Reserve hooker is very young and played SA Under 20 last month, he’s also AJ Venter’s son.
Loads of pace in the back three. Evan Roos is a good prospect at 8.
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Andre Venter’s boy not AJ Venter’s.
Andre Venter’s got a degenerative disease now and sadly is confined to a wheelchair. He was a top player back in the day.
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OT – side entry Shirley?
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Regarding pronunciations…O’Ma-ho-ney. 😁
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The commentators said Moron for Kevin Moran, the Irish centre-half who get sent off for Man U for chopping down Peter Reid when he was through on goal in the FA Cup final in the 80s. Presumably he was slower than Peter Reid, Maradona must be shaking his head. Anyway that’s pretty conclusive that the other way is correct.
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OT – I spotted that during the match, and it amused me greatly.
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I like Faf’s little apology to the ref at the end of that clip.
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AIUI, Gaelic words generally have the emphasis on the first syllable, hence MORan. But I’ve never heard a real Irish person named Moran pronounce their name that way: it’s always MorAN.
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Hopefully Smith will be told to just go out & play, and gats doesn’t do a cockers and never let him have the ball.
Opportunity for some of those players to cement themselves as test starters.
Interesting that the prop & back row combos have been kept together for a run of games. Good to see Henshaw back.
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Here he is.
“As far as I was concerned I wasn’t even at fault for the tackle”!
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That wasn’t a red card in them days. The professional foul red card law only came into being in 1990.
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Well he got sent off. It was a dangerous tackle in the first place, but the commentator at the time spoke about ‘denying a goal-scoring opportunity’ so that side of it was definitely an issue and though I think you’re right that didn’t make it an automatic red till a bit later it didn’t make it not one either.
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Willie Young on Paul Allen in the Cup Final was a few years before and there were howls about how Big Willie should have been sent off.
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Moran – is Mor-un not Muh-raan. Stress on first syllable
McGrath – is M-Grah’ – short ‘A’ and stress on “gra” and not McGraarr
Sometimes though you do get localised pronunciations – eg people called “Walsh” called colloquially “Welsh” or a surname will be pronounced closer to it’s Irish version than the English transliteration (tends to happen as you go wes(h)t
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I was thinking that Aussie who’s a national hero for murdering South African POWs and civilians in the Boer War was a Moran, but remembered he’s a Morant. Film about him with Alf from Home and Away in it though not as him. Anyway I guess to be fair to him it wasn’t something you could expect to get executed for in them days.
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aargh…my ears are bleeding….
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So the commentators were right, both about the sending off and the pronunciation. Still morons. Or Motsons or whatever.
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Craigs, Nkosi is pronounced the way you would say ‘in’ but with a Kiwi accent, if that makes sense. It’s a sound midway between in and un. Definitely not Na-Kosi, although plenty of South Africans of a paler hue would say that because they can’t get their tongues around it. It was the same for President Thabo Mbeki, (pronounced i/ummmbeki) often cringingly referred to as President Ma-Beki.
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Just shown 3 Dubliners a picture of Paul McGrath and asked them who it was and they said it was Nelson Mandela’s kid.
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@cmw
Ray Meagher, or Meager, or Marr.
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When we were in Waterford, we stayed in a hotel that occupies the building where Thomas Francis Meagher was born. He certainly lived a full life:
http://www.1848tricolour.com/thomas-francis-meagher/
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Craigs,
Think about the beginning of the South African anthem:
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We should just be thankful that Conor McNamara doesn’t have to commentate on a match played in Vereeniging.
There was a weird thing on the post-match analysis part on Sky. The team, McNamara, Warbs and Greenwood, are in Britain and Sarra Elgan and Bryan Habana are doing pitchside in SA. After the match Sam Warburton rushes back to the sofa but they then did a bit with Will Greenwood pretending to talk to Bryan Habana pitchside after the game. It was all greenscreened up and It’s quite a strange effect.
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@OT – I’ve looked it up and Doug from Neighbours was in it too. Not in the same league as Alf of course though it turns out he’s Jason Donovan’s dad in real life.
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Apparently Alf played rugby:
Meagher played at first five eighth for Queensland at senior level in the late 1960s, including playing against France.
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When I was at university we described the wearing of clothes that were predominantly brown as “Mee-arger” in homage to Alf from Home and Away.
E.g. “you’re looking a bit mee-arger today, Dave”
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I notice Wales U20s have a lad Costelow – now that’s much closer to how “Costello” is pronounced in Ireland. – rather than Co-stello
And who can forget the Beeb struggling with jockey Jim Culloty (of these parts) – I think it was Claire Balding initially calling him an Italian style Cu-lotti rather than the Cull-uhtee in this neck of the woods.
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Gerard is another funny one. Too many people call it Ger-aaaaaard, which simply doesn’t work.
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And Forsyth! Usually people pronounce it ForSYTH unless you’re talking about Brucie when it then magically turns into FORsyth.
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(I try to be!)
Long drawn out version is very American ..like Maurice rendered as Muh -RIIISSSS, whereas we’d say Marr-iss.
I did have a work colleague who obviously thought there was a touch of Gallic flair about me and called me “Gérard” – like Depardieu
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Agree on Forsyth – first pronunciation is very Scottish to my ears
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@trisk
I bet you have some delightful attempts at your surname too.
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Comments down here on last night’s match reckon that Morne Steyn is a sleeper agent for the Lions and Faf was lousy. Also Wiese is overrated and Big Trevor goes from 1st choice to fired into the sun at tighthead. Bizarrely, some even think Dweba is crap, despite a barnstorming debut until he got subbed.
Agreed Steyn is a stopgap 10 and Nyakane is a few weeks from being properly match fit. Wiese is okay, nothing more, but Dweba is firmly in the mix going forward.
For me, I was pretty happy with the side, given the preparation woes we’ve had. The cards late in the first half and PS du Toit going off early in the second definitely disrupted us, as did running out of puff because of the lack of matches. Some here saying our attack is blunt, but I’ll be happy enough when Pollard and Mapimpi are back in the side.
Malherbe at TH, with Vincent Koch on the bench will restore some power there, whilst there is hope that Lood de Jager and RG Snyman will be back in the mix, if not next weekend then for the 2nd Test. Some would like to see Dan du Preez given a run at 8. I don’t rate him, but mainly on his brain dead play whilst he was at the Sharks. No idea if he’s got better at Sale.
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@OT – heard them all…. some amazing renderings…..
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