The following four fixtures will be shown on the World Rugby site, and they will be available to watch afterwards, so even the most fevered rugby fans will not be found wanting for action.
Saturday, 20th November
Brazil v Kenya: (3rd/4th place play-off Stellenbosch Challenge, Men’s) Markotter Field, Stellenbosch – 10:00 GMT)
Zimbabwe v Namibia: (Final Stellenbosch Challenge, Men’s) Markotter Field, Stellenbosch – 12:00 GMT)
Russia v Chile: (Men’s) Yug Sports Stadium, Sochi – 12:00 GMT
Georgia v Fiji: (Men’s) Estadio El Deleite, Aranjuez – 14:30 GMT
Now on to the main attractions.
Italy vs Uruguay
Uruguay have qualified for RWC ’23 as Americas 1; however, they fell to Romania last week. Italy did better than most commentators thought they would against the might of the All Blacks but a loss against Argentina will mean they will be looking to make amends. Italy are currently ranked 14 against Uruguay’s 17. The visitors will not be overawed, but I expect the home team to win.
Scotland vs Japan
Scotland were overpowered last week by a very good Springbok side. It would have been understandable if many of those players were stood down, but Toonie has gone for a strong selection as he welcomes Scott Cummings back into the second row. There is rotation on the loosehead side with Schoeman and Bhatti swapping the starting jersey, and there will be new caps: the large shape of Scarlets’ Javan Sebastian, and Dylan Richardson from the Sharks (not the Sale ones) débuting in the back row.
Japan haven’t had the best results, losing heavily in Dublin and beating Portugal by 13, suggesting that this is not the Japan of the last RWC.
Scotland to win.
England v South Africa
South Africa will be after a full house from their three fixtures in November. They have selected a strong side: you know what’s coming, it’s dealing with it that is the problem.
Rodd, Blamire (Blay-mire), Sinckler, Dolly, Marler and Stuart will be under the microscope: it’s a well-known fact of life that you don’t out-Bok the Boks, so unless England can run South Africa around and keep away from set pieces, one would think this is only going to go one way, which is counter-intuitive when talking about England.
Elsewhere, Marcus Smith will be looking to sprinkle a bit of fairy dust on the Battle of the Orcs going on in front of him; he can turn his own Orc outside him in the formidable shape of Manu Tuilagi.
On the other hand, De Allende and Am are a very good midfield partnership; this is a tough game to call because Twickenham is a difficult place to go to play rugby.
I’m going to go for a very tight away win here, less than 7. Unless England’s pack end up as roadkill, like Scotland’s, then it will be a bigger margin: the Boks will be well up for this.
Wales vs Australia
Wales have had a mixed series. Putting out a B team against New Zealanders is never a good idea, but their hand was forced due to the international window agreements. They were five points short of South Africa and overcame the all-singing and -dancing (and big-hitting) Fijians.
Australia have had also had a mixed run of results. After downing the World Champions as a highlight of their year, they beat Argentina twice but lost to Scotland and were thumped by England.
Tupo being back will help their scrum, but they will be without skipper and talisman Michael Hooper, which kind of cancels out AWJ missing from the Welsh boilerhouse.
Wales at home is never a team to bet against, even with a relatively unfamiliar midfield.
Another tough call, but I’m going for a home win here.
France vs New Zealand
New Zealand don’t often lose two in a row. They did last year, but it’s only happened five times since 2000 in around 250 tests (I was surprised at how many they’d played, but then they do tend to play almost all the games possible at the world cup as well as the RC and tours).
Fabien Galthié has chosen partnerships for this match: Dupont and Ntamack at half-back, and Danty joining his erstwhile colleague Fickou in the midfield, which means Jalibert drops to the bench.
Elsewhere there are changes with Mauvaka coming in to the front row with Willemse joining Woki in the locking positions
Is this rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic?
I don’t think the current iteration of the All Blacks present as insurmountable a problem as before, but they are still the All Blacks.
The ABs side hasn’t been announced yet, so just for fun I’ll call this a draw.
Ireland v Argentina
Ireland were HUGE last week: a top-end performance full of fire, commitment, cool heads in the heat of the battle, and extraordinary focus. That is what it takes to beat the top teams, and Ireland had it all.
Can they back it up this week?
At the time of writing the teams have not been published, but everything points to a home win. For me, they have been the most impressive team over the series so far, and the only problem they may face is injuries, which will only serve to open the door for more Leinster players to make the step up to international level, the gits.
A comfortable home win.
Thanks to Tichtheid2 for the preview.
Onna telly this week
Friday 19th November
| London Irish v Saracens | 19:45 | BT Sport 2 |
Saturday 20th November
| Italy v Uruguay | 13:00 | Prime |
| Scotland v Japan | 13:00 | Prime |
| Ireland v Japan (women) | 15:00 | RTÉ2 |
| England v South Africa | 15:15 | Prime |
| Wales v Australia | 17:30 | Prime |
| France v New Zealand | 20:00 | Prime |
Sunday 21st November
| Ireland v Argentina | 14:15 | Channel 4 / RTÉ2 | ||
| England v USA (women) | 14:45 | BBC2 / iPlayer | ||
| Wales v Canada (women) | 17:00 | BBC2 Wales |
Ovally Balls 
Congo claims another victim. RIP OB.
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News –
World rugby have approved test eligibility change , providing
The player must stand-down from international rugby for 36 months
The player must either be born in the country to which they wish to transfer or have a parent or grandparent born in that country
Under the revised Regulation 8 criteria, a player may only change union once and each case will be subject to approval by the World Rugby Regulations Committee to preserve integrity
“capture” applies at 18, so no more swapping after U20s
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“capture” applies at 18, so no more swapping after U20s
or maybe not, someone has suggested this still only applies to 18 year olds playing for the senior team
The purpose was simplification, apparently
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@ticht
This is very important. In RL Scotland picked Danny Brough who played a few times. He then declared that he wanted to play for England. England didn’t pick him so he went back to Scotland.
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Does ‘stand down’ mean make some sort of official declaration of not being available? i.e. just not getting picked isn’t enough?
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CMW I would think there’d have to be some kind of official declaration, rather than just X country hasn’t picked me so I’m now eligible for Scotland.*
* just joking, it could be anyone. Think I’m gonna start a Golden Lions Kinshasa scheme.
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When you were talking about Greatest 10s, you all OBVIOUSLY meant to mention John Rutherford.
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Never realised John Rutherford was from the Congo.
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It’s a little known part of Selkirk, true….
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“Selkirk”
The heart of darkness.
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Nope, that’s Hawick.
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Mark Ella wasn’t mentioned either, BB. No biggie.
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Neither was Dan Parks.
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Nor Morne Steyn.
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Or Les Cusworth.
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Had to look up Les.
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A small bald man, Deebs. Good at 7z, good at 15z. Iksy, daff and I were all in attendance at his ill-fated comeback international.
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When you were talking about Greatest 10s, you all OBVIOUSLY meant to mention Jimmy Joseph.
They’re already writing books about him.
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Apparently, yes. If you’ve not played for your “country” for 3 years – you’re free to switch to one where you have family connections….
Seems to have created some heat in places like Argentina and Georgia where team is pretty much 100% home-grown. From what I’ve read – this is very much driven by PI. And although the popular image is that NZ and Oz pillage them (PI) for their best players – most of the players of PI-origin in All Blacks and Wallabies are born in NZ/Oz or pretty much grown up there.
At last RWC, Samoa had the highest %ge over “overseas” born players (and that can be a “dodgy” measure as in the past Heaslip/O’Gara/Jordi Murphy were tagged as “non-Irish” in these reports) – mainly NZ-born of Samoan parents.
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My abiding memory is of a running 10 – in an era when England just wanted to kick the leather off it.
Hence – second memory – he was picked/dropped innumerable times….. 12 caps in 10 years (79-88)
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Think it is a fair ruling, can’t really see any harm in it, and if it can strengthen the PI sides, why not ?
Any idea why the English premiership has a hatful of Friday night games this week ?
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The counter-argument (as I understand it) is that places like Argentina and Georgia have solid structures internally that produce good teams at U20, senior level – whereas local development in Samoa is poor and allowing them to “whistle up” an All Black 2nd XV at senior level is a sticking plaster – rather than fixing issues at the bottom of the pyramid.
Obviously, the two aren’t “either/or” – but work needs to be done at grass roots in tandem
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Whilst it’s true that many of the guys of PI origin have grown up in OZ and New Zealand, they’ve done so because their parents left the country for better chances for themselves and their children, “economic migrant” has become the nomenclature for this.
It’s the same reason you get so many Scottish players born in England or elsewhere, or why some Irish or Welsh players have the accents they do.
Dan Leo’s film stated the case for players being able to change their allegiance, it’s a pretty powerful argument, he says that players choose New Zealand or Australia when they are young and skint, when they are older and more secure they would happily play for Samoa, Tonga or Fiji, when there isn’t the pressure put on them to play for the ABs or Wallabies.
I guess the hope is a long-term one, if the current guys go and play for these sides in the world cup and and they are successful, they might well inspire one or two young kids to choose those teams in the first place, especially if they can earn some decent coin doing so. Then more and more will choose their “heritage” team if I can call it that, maybe even slow or reverse the economic migration a little.
I can see the Tier 2 side of the argument, the teams who would not benefit from this ruling, but keeping the PIs down doesn’t lift the Argentinas or Georgias in any way.
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@tomp
When Leicester featured on Rugby Special he always looked like Dusty Hare’s little brother.
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Samoa have had a significant proportion of NZ-born players since at least 1991. I would imagine there must be quite a few players qualifying via grandparents these days.
Perhaps a new career path will be to get noticed playing for a PI team when young, go off to France or England to make some money for a couple of years having renounced international rugby and then go back to Super Rugby or whatever and play for NZ. I don’t really think so with getting into the ABs being so competitive, but someone might do it.
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From Wiki:
“In the 2018 census, 182,721 New Zealanders identified themselves as being of Samoan ethnicity with 55,512 stating that they were born in Samoa, and 861 stating that they were born in American Samoa.[1]”
Population of Samoa: 202,506
So while “whereas local development in Samoa is poor and allowing them to “whistle up” an All Black 2nd XV at senior level is a sticking plaster – rather than fixing issues at the bottom of the pyramid” might be true to some extent it’s asking a lot for development to be as good in Samoa as in NZ and the numbers would suggest a big chunk of the team being NZ-qualified wouldn’t be that strange a thing in the first place.
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A small bald man, Deebs. you calling me Les?
Good at 7z, good at 15z
Oh I see, not at all then. I was good at touch rugby, if getting broken noses and black eyes is a mark of success.
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“According to the 2016 Australian census, there are a total of 75,755 Australians with Samoan ancestry. This number includes the 24,017 Australian residents who were born in the Samoan Islands”
Don’t see many of them turning out for Samoa though. Could be:
1. The Samoans don’t want them if they’re not good enough for the Wallabies.
2. They are actually playing for the Wallabies.
3. They’re playing League (including for Samoa).
Suspect it’s mainly 3.
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Dual/Multiple identity stuff, innit. That great Western Samoa team of the early 90s had a fair number of NZ-born and raised players like Frank Bunce, Pat Lam, Mark Birtwhistle, Appollo Perelini, Stephen Bachop, but was predominantly Samoan-born players. 3 of those went on to play for the All Blacks.
Plus there was this guy:
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Viliami Ofahengaue, Willie O is the dual qualification par excellence,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viliami_Ofahengaue
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CMW, had a look at the Samoan squad for the 2019 RWC. Quite a number were raised or spent a chunk of their childhood in Australia – Michael Ala’alatoa (brother is a Wallaby), Jack Lam, Seilala Lam, Paul Alo-Emile, Senio Toleafoa, UJ Seutini among others. What’s noticeable is how much people moved around between Samoa, NZ and Australia.
You’ve got things now like the Matavesi boys who were born in Cornwall and spent almost all their careers playing in Europe but play internationally for Fiji. Their dad was a Fijian international and mum Cornish.
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“Ofahengaue played for New Zealand Schoolboys in 1988 and participated in a tour to Australia”
“Date of birth 3 May 1968 (age 53)”
A 20-year-old schoolboy, eh, New Zealand?
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If you want a fine example of a dual national rugby player than look no further than Jamie Salmon.
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@TomP – Might have been the previous WC where it seemed like the entire squad were listed as born in NZ – or perhaps as you seem to be suggesting some of the NZ-born players grew up in Aus (or maybe even back in Samoa). In Samoa’s case it’s hard to see that the changes will mean more diaspora players turning out for them as most of the team seem to be already – it will probably mean better ones doing so though. There might be a greater effect in the balance of ‘home-grown’ players in the Tonga and Fiji sides (not sure what that is), I guess we’ll see. Anyway the new rule seems fair enough though I’m sure someone will find a way to abuse it in a way that plenty of people will feel is wrong.
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ticht,
Topo Rodriguez is a contender as well. Bossed the Aussie scrum with Argentina, a few months later emigrates to Australia and within 3 months he’s a Wallaby.
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OT,
John Gallagher maybe. The London-born All Black and Ireland (A) player.
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Lesley Vainikolo seems to have managed to play League for NZ, Union for England and sevens for Tonga.
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Frank Mellish I like as well. England v Ireland in February 1921 and then South Africa v New Zealand in August 1921.
Martin Donnelly’s good as well. Centre for England v Ireland in 1947. Test cricket for New Zealand v England both pre- and post-World War 2.
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I think Vainikolo was on the pitch in an England shirt. Not sure you could honestly say he played.
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From Tony Collins’ Social History of English Rugby Union:
The issue of overseas players’ eligibility for England was a constant issue in the 1930s and 1940s. In the interwar years South African players were a common sight in an England jersey. Frank Mellish had played six times for
England in the 1920s and returned home to win six caps for the Springboks. Brian Black won ten England caps in the early 1930s. Hubert Freakes won three caps in the late 1930s. Full-back Harold ‘Tuppy’ Owen-Smith, a South
African medical student who scored a century for South Africa against England in 1929, won ten caps and captained England three times between 1934 and 1937. Following the end of the war, five South Africans and one
Australian appeared for England. In 1946 Rugger devoted its first editorial to the matter after three overseas players had been selected in an England trial match: ‘the truth of the matter is that international qualification hangs on the thinnest of threads. A second cousin, ten times removed, is the sort of thing that provides sufficient qualification.’ Welsh rugby commentator G.V. Wynne-Jones was even more scathing, claiming that England believed they ‘could select any Colonial player and call him English’ and pointing out that the side for the 1949 match against France included the Argentinian Barry Holmes, the Rhodesian Robert Kennedy, the South African Clive van Ryneveld and the Australian Basil Travers.
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The big laugh will be if the first player to turn out for a PI team under the new rules turns out to have been tied to a European team rather than NZ or Aus.
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I haven’t read too much about the nuts and bolts of the agreement, but it does seem like open season for countries to poach a lot of players from here – it’s already happening and this will just accelerate that process if a guy gets capped and then finds himself down the pecking order a season or two later. If we just look at a guy like Dylan Richardson, with a Scottish father, he’d never set foot in Scotland before being picked for their squad. At least the likes of WP Nel and Pierre Schoeman did it via residency, as did Oli Kebble, Duhan van der Merwe and Jaco van der Walt.
What’s to stop a guy like Jason Jenkins (one cap, in 2018) dredging up a Welsh relative (his name sounds Welsh) and slotting into the second row there tomorrow, if the ‘incentives’ are right? I’m assuming it doesn’t apply on residency grounds, only ancestry, or the likes of Rohan Janse van Rensburg and Stephan Lewies could be England qualified now despite being Bok capped.
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“the Argentinian Barry Holmes”
I’m going to guess it was a closer relative than ‘a second cousin, ten times removed’ in this instance.
“the Rhodesian Robert Kennedy”
Not the other one then.
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How could I forget? Frano Botica – when he wasn’t playing RL he played RU for both the All Blacks and Croatia
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Croatia would have been the sort of team I thought Ticht could have tried out for yesterday. Might have to aim a little lower.
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Iceland, CMW, I think I’d like Iceland
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Deebee, what happens if they apply for UK citizenship? (I know the UK isn’t England. In which case both could do a job for Wales. )
There was a story a few years back that the Home Office wanted to deport England international Hendre Fourie. He’d retired because of injury and so didn’t meet the terms of his visa. He stayed in the end I think.
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@deebee
It’s ancestry-based…back to grandparents….. Guardian says “and if they, or a parent or grandparent, were born in the country they wish to represent”
I’m looking forward to Jamie Heaslip turning out for Israel ….
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He played for the Sharks in Glasgow about 2 weeks before the Scottish squad was announced. Must’ve liked what he’d seen.
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Must’ve liked what
he’dthey’d seen.FIFY.
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