World Cup, Round Two!

Wrwgwai bailando

What a cracker of a first round! Some delectable rugby, some surprises, and plenty of dodgy reffing decisions to moan about.

Tonga and Samoa have yet to play, but Wales easily contained Fiji. The big surprises were the performances of the two South American minnows: Chile gave Japan a good fight, although they ran out of puff before the end, and Wrwgwai (that’s the Welsh spelling of Uruguay, per MisterIks, apparently) gave France a hell of a fright.

So what’s in store for this weekend? Mostly very one-sided fixtures; it’s not even worth speculating about the scores. The closest matches may well be Samoa v Chile, Australia v Fiji, England v Japan, and South Africa v Romania, now they’ve lost Marx and seeing as how they don’t have a proper 10.

Onna telly this week

Friday 15th September

New Zealand v Namibia20:00ITV4

Saturday 16th September

Samoa v Chile14:00ITV4
Wales v Portugal16:45ITV1 / STV / S4C / iPlayer
Ireland v Tonga20:00ITV1 / STV / RTÉ2

Sunday 17th September

South Africa v Romania14:00ITV1 / STV
Australia v Fiji16:45ITV1 / STV
England v Japan20:00ITV1 / STV

Wednesday 20th September

Italy v Uruguay16:45ITV4

Thursday 21st September

France v Namibia20:00ITV4

478 thoughts on “World Cup, Round Two!

  1. sunbeamtim's avatarsunbeamtim

    There was also a couple of antelope in there too, no setting sun tho.

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  3. Boks have actually gone 7-1 on the bench, with the only (minor) caveat that Kwagga Smith played 7s for the Boks and has some decent pace. But it’s a massive gamble, especially if one of our backs goes down early. I am officially not a fan. The bomb squad does have three very versatile players in Smith, Deon Fourie (reserve hooker, but a very good loose forward) and Marco Gan Staden, a loose forward being groomed as a third hooker. Still don’t like it.

    Liked by 1 person

  4. thaumaturge's avatarthaumaturge

    7-1 is just nuts. I know they did it last week, but that against slightly less worrying opposition.

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  5. thaumaturge's avatarthaumaturge

    Refit – what that post is missing is the Fiji factor.

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  6. Thauma, last week we went 5-3 against Romania, playing all four of the 9s in the squad. We went 7-1 against the All Blacks at Twickers, but that was partly because Willie le Roux was injured just before the kick off. The seven replacement forwards bear a little more scrutiny as well, as it’s not exactly 7 RG Snyman’s (although him and Munster lock partner Jean Kleyn will both play off the bench): you’ve got three openside flankers on the bench (albeit one earmarked as hooker replacement), I’m assuming to contest Irish ball at the breakdowns and slow them down or get turnovers.

    The initial assault by the starting 8 should be pretty evenly contested, I think, with Ireland’s pack no slouches. But a replacement tight five as below is pretty scary and should see the Boks dominate the set pieces as the game goes on. I’d expect to see the tight five bench emptied by the 50th minute or perhaps even sooner, so that the Boks will have a sustained ‘give it all’ 40 minutes each half from their pack. This split is a huge compliment to Ireland and a nod to how tough the Bok coaches think it’ll be. The one thing that surprised me is no room in the 23 for Duane Vermeulen!

    Bok squad:

    15 Damian Willemse, 14 Kurt-Lee Arendse, 13 Jesse Kriel, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Cheslin Kolbe, 10 Manie Libbok, 9 Faf de Klerk, 8 Jasper Wiese, 7 Pieter-Steph du Toit, 6 Siya Kolisi (captain), 5 Franco Mostert, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Frans Malherbe, 2 Bongi Mbonambi, 1 Steven Kitshoff.

    Reserves: 16 Deon Fourie, 17 Ox Nche, 18 Trevor Nyakane, 19 Jean Kleyn, 20 RG Snyman, 21 Marco van Staden, 22 Kwagga Smith, 23 Cobus Reinach.

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  7. thaumaturge's avatarthaumaturge

    Ah, sorry. It was the other bonkers thing you did last week.

    Liked by 3 people

  8. I can’t decide if the Bok management are geniuses for having so many players that can mix and match positions, or if they’re just being a bit too clever for their own good and it’ll come back to bite them later in the tournament (or this weekend!). Let’s stick with genius until proven otherwise. I suppose the thinking is that injuries are part and parcel of the tournament and they’d rather have guys who are in the squad already who can slot seamlessly in, than brining in an outsider who has to get up to speed, especially the deeper you go. And then, Pollard.

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  9. tichtheid2's avatartichtheid2

    The South Africa Ireland game could be a dress rehearsal for the final, the way France have played so far leads me to believe they won’t beat either of these sides in the quarters, likewise New Zealand and I can’t see anyone from the other side of the draw doing so either.

    It’s early days of course, Danty will make a huge difference to France and a card here, an injury there can shift things around for any side.

    Whatever the case, the draw means that three of the current top five in the world will drop out by the quarter final stage.

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  10. Boks kill blog shocker! It’s Italy Uruguay tonight. I think we could be in for a really attractive game of rugby and hope we have lots of tries and running rugby. I also hope Italy win by 15 or more to give my shocking ‘Bru standing a bit of a lift.

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  11. Ticht, depending on Scotland and England’s run ins to the QFs, it may only be two of the top five dropping out by then. Yes, I’m having a poke at your ribs!

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  12. tichtheid2's avatartichtheid2

    You missed the word “current” Deebee.

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  13. tichtheid2's avatartichtheid2

    With our recent head to head I’d be delighted to meet England in a knock out game, but it’s not going to happen

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  14. ClydeMillarWynant's avatarClydeMillarWynant

    I would love Scotland to turn Ireland over, but I really can’t see it. Ireland just look too strong and the South Africa game was hardly the best opportunity for Scotland to build up any momentum (the same would of course most likely be true if the games had been the other way round). Without dismissing their improvement I still put Scotland in the group with England, Australia, Wales, Argentina and now Fiji rather than with the top four. If it was a fully seeded tournament they would still be slated to out in the QF and I haven’t seen anything from them that would make me expect otherwise. Obviously it’s still a really shitty group to have been landed and not making it out of it won’t reflect their true standing. I guess a shot at one of the big teams later in the tournament would also have been a better opportunity as the chances of one of them blowing up probably increase as they get closer to the big prize.

    What I really hope for Scotland is that they finally break through with a genuine shot at the Six Nations in the next couple of years and that when they do they actually manage to go the whole hog and win the damn thing, hopefully with a slam. The strength of Ireland and France means they’d be doing that as a proper underdog and that’s a very rare thing (only slams that fit the bill in my time would be two or three of the Wales ones and the last Scotland one in 1990 and there haven’t been that many unfancied tournament winners either really).

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  15. ClydeMillarWynant's avatarClydeMillarWynant

    When I thought there was a reasonable chance of it happening I had mixed feelings about the possibility of a Wales-England QF. Would have been a great chance to dump them out and also not much risk of them winning the thing if we lost. On the other hand I would have expected us to lose. As it turns out it would involve some unlikely BP shenanigans for it to happen now anyway as we’re very likely to either win the group or go out and they pretty much got first place in their group sorted out in the first game (though it’ll still be interesting to see what Samoa have got).

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  16. ClydeMillarWynant's avatarClydeMillarWynant

    I do think one of the things that makes the draw this time look even worse than it otherwise would is that we’re in the unusual position of having four pretty well matched teams at the top of the world game at the moment. Usually it seems to be one or two, three at a push then a gap to the rest who are much of a muchness.

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  17. tichtheid2's avatartichtheid2

    CMW, the only teams I think Scotland have no chance against right now are Ireland and South Africa.

    I’d be happy enough to go up against anyone else in a quarter final and genuinely think we had a shot at going through, having said that we are perfectly capable of shooting ourselves in the foot and shipping two or three very quick scores against anyone, so now I’ve invited them, the mocker gods are going to see Tonga thrash us.

    I can’t see us winning a 6N in the very near future, mid table mediocrity holds no shame for us given the how poor we’ve been over the course since five changed to six.

    France’s U20s look good, the best of them mixing in with the best of the current young crop will keep them strong for a good while to come. Ireland have a very successful system, Wales punch above their collective regional weight in the 6N and there is the money whispering constantly in the ear of the tournament organisers regarding bringing South Africa in to the competition.

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  18. ClydeMillarWynant's avatarClydeMillarWynant

    “there is the money whispering constantly in the ear of the tournament organisers regarding bringing South Africa in to the competition.”

    This definitely feels like something to be feared. Hard to see Scotland or Wales winning it again should that happen as there are enough things that have to align for them to do so as it is.

    At the moment I guess Scotland (and also Wales and England should they get their houses in order) probably need one of France and Ireland to have a surprisingly poor year and then one great performance against the other. That still feels possible if unlikely. Obviously England will at some point swap places with either France or Ireland again, but they look a way off just at the moment.

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  19. ClydeMillarWynant's avatarClydeMillarWynant

    What’s been great about following Wales since 2005 is how well they’ve done at taking their chances in the years when, often surprisingly, it’s turned out to be ‘on’. I don’t see that Scotland can’t find that from somewhere just one time. Finding the level of consistency Ireland have managed in the same period to end up taking a pretty solid looking place at the top table looks further away now than at any time since the early 2000s for Wales and to be honest looks to me to be beyond Scotland for the foreseeable too as it has done for ages. Too much of a minority sport in Scotland and too many insolvable structural problems in Wales for this to change too much in my opinion, the notion that we can just learn from Ireland’s example is far-fetched.

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  20. Ignored, I think is more accurate. Scotland would have few problems beating England at the moment, despite the sudden burst of confidence from the England camp. I think England and Australia are both building towards 2027. Cough.

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  21. ClydeMillarWynant's avatarClydeMillarWynant

    The way Wales go about things there’s far too much time between now and 2027 to knock down anything that manages to get built. Better to keep rolling the dice!

    South Africa showed the way last time round – fuck about for as long as possible and then sort things out just in time. Avoids the disappointment that at least one out of France and Ireland are going to experience this time if nothing else.

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  22. I honestly don’t want the Boks to join the 6N. It’s a tournament that’s rich in its own history and traditions and we’re simply not part of that. Also, our eternal enemies are New Zealand and every Bok supporter wants us to play them every year as it’s the pinnacle of our rugby season. I’d love to see Fiji and Samoa in the 4N as well, although the logistics of it, especially for SA and I think Argentina, may just be too much every year. What about Japan, I hear you ask? Fuck ’em. 2015 hasn’t been forgotten. Nah, seriously – they’re yours in the NH to deal with.

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  23. ClydeMillarWynant's avatarClydeMillarWynant

    Thinking back to which teams have made the final despite being pretty rubbish almost right up to the tournament and sometimes even during it. I was a bit unfair on the Boks in 2019 as they had sorted things out for the Rugby Championship that year though the few years prior might be close to a historical low for them.

    France 1999 weren’t good for a year beforehand though had won slams in 97 and 98 I think.
    England 2007 including their group game with the Boks. They’re the standout example!
    France 2011 were pretty poor at the start of the tournament and not great earlier that year though again they’d won a slam in 2010.
    I guess Aus weren’t fancied that much in 2003 or 2015, but more because other teams were rather than them being no good.

    Not seeing a lot of hope for the teams in the weaker half of the draw on that front and I don’t see much on the field either!

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  24. tichtheid2's avatartichtheid2

    The new world league thing probably has put the kibosh on SA joining the 6N for a while, it’s to start in 2026, I think.

    The 6N sides, the four RC sides plus two “invited” teams are to contest the first year.

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  25. flair99's avatarflair99

    I expect France to send development teams to this world league monster. It was hard enough to get clubs and country to agree about the release of the players, with rather successful results. Never forget though that most French players already play far too many games for their own good. Over 40 games a year is common here, and it doesn’t bode well either for the quality of the games or the players’ health.
    I agree with Deebee, SA have nothing to do with the 6N. And this world league should be dumped ASAP. Hope France treat it just like Castres treat the H cup.

    Liked by 4 people

  26. sunbeamtim's avatarsunbeamtim

    Ticht, next year might be your year. Your backline will be intact, and maybe only Nel to retire in the pack , so a pretty stable and honed squad. France may well have hangover from being world cup winners, England and Wales will be rebuilding with youngsters, Italy may be touch and go but you should beat them, so you only have to mug Ireland, Hey presto, a Scotland grand slam.

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  27. sunbeamtim's avatarsunbeamtim

    World league- I think I really have no interest. Stinks of pure money making, would be better off upping the quota of games against improving opposition, and I am sure this league will only have a detrimental effect on development of the 2nd tier countries. ( or is that 3rd tier )

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  28. flair99's avatarflair99

    Hangover from being WC winners? Damn, where do I sign?
    So does anyone really believe Crowley when he says Uruguay -oops, my bad: Wrwgway s a threat to Italy? They certainly played well vs France, and had Tao received a not quite undeserved RC instead of a yellow, France’s reservists might well have panicked. But Wrwgway mostly faced a bunch of individuals and Italy is a true team. Don’t see anything but an easy win for the Azzuri.
    Aspettiamo!

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  29. ClydeMillarWynant's avatarClydeMillarWynant

    If Uruguay do well against Italy it will probably be reported that this is a good thing in terms of more teams being competitive etc. I tend to think the opposite is true.

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  30. thaumaturge's avatarthaumaturge

    Just a penalty, seriously?

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  31. Borderboy's avatarBorderboy

    Oops. Italian sub not watching the game while warming up behind the try line and almost gets in the way of an Italian attack. Serves him right.

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  32. thaumaturge's avatarthaumaturge

    Wow, Italy down to 13.

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  33. thaumaturge's avatarthaumaturge

    … and on a warning for another card.

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  34. thaumaturge's avatarthaumaturge

    TRY Uruguay! (Number two.)

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  35. thaumaturge's avatarthaumaturge

    And a Uruguayan drop goal to finish the half!

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  36. sunbeamtim's avatarsunbeamtim

    Just tuned in for few minutes, well worth it just for that conversion, whats the place kick version of a googly ?

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  37. Borderboy's avatarBorderboy

    Uruguay drop goal, ‘slightly inebriated’ as Bill would have said, but it went over.

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  38. Borderboy's avatarBorderboy

    SBT – he’s missed two really easy kicks too.

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  39. flair99's avatarflair99

    Well, I didnt expect this. Still think Italy should have enough but their lack of composure is surprising. I guess Wrwgway will soon knock on the 6N door, then?

    Liked by 1 person

  40. thaumaturge's avatarthaumaturge

    Well, things have certainly changed since I went to clean the bath.

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  41. flair99's avatarflair99

    As Italy claimed a BP vs Wrwgway, unlike France, it sets up an interesting 8th final between the two teams.
    Even assuming Italy lose their previous game vs the ABs, if Italy win vs France, they are in the QF mix.

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  42. thaumaturge's avatarthaumaturge

    Don’t be daft, Flair. Italy are not going to beat France.

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  43. flair99's avatarflair99

    Then they have to beat NZ. That’d be very funny.

    Liked by 1 person

  44. thaumaturge's avatarthaumaturge

    I think that’s more likely on the list-of-things-that-aren’t-likely-at-all.

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  45. I did say a couple of weeks ago that Italy would wipe the floor with the Kiwis*, so no surprises there.

    * possibly paraphrasing and exaggerating simultaneously. But yes, it would be funny, if unlikely!

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  46. thaumaturge's avatarthaumaturge

    Right, so I’ve got my old man coming to visit tomorrow for a fortnight. We will be off to the Lakes for most of that time. But I am not revealing my super-secret internet identity to any family members, so it might be difficult to get new posts up, particularly if I have to write them myself (hint, hint).

    Obviously we will be watching the matches, whether he likes it or not, and I can probably get away with commenting as ‘some rugby blog I follow’.

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  47. Squidge on Fiji

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  48. tichtheid2's avatartichtheid2

    As far as I understand it the new world league won’t involve any more games for players. There will be games in July, as there are now, and more in November, as there ate now.
    The main casualty will be the three test tours to NZ/Aus/SA for 6N sides

    The downside is that the tiers are going to be ring fenced until 2030, then promotion/relegation is going to be considered

    Flair, if France treat these as throwaway fixtures they risk their seeding for the World Cup

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  49. flair99's avatarflair99

    Ticht, we all see what seedings meant in terms of more or less favorable draws. Nothing.
    France will remain among the first half dozen for the foreseeable future, so am not sure they’ll bother on that count alone. And T14 is still the major competition French players want to win so the clubs will apply pressure there.

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  50. tichtheid2's avatartichtheid2

    The seedings this time around are especially poor, there is no way the FFR will throw these games in the summer months.
    Not much is actually changing, the teams will play games in the summer and games in the autumn, just as they do now, only now there will be points awarded.

    I really don’t understand the objections to this.

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