What a cracker of a first round! Some delectable rugby, some surprises, and plenty of dodgy reffing decisions to moan about.
Tonga and Samoa have yet to play, but Wales easily contained Fiji. The big surprises were the performances of the two South American minnows: Chile gave Japan a good fight, although they ran out of puff before the end, and Wrwgwai (that’s the Welsh spelling of Uruguay, per MisterIks, apparently) gave France a hell of a fright.
So what’s in store for this weekend? Mostly very one-sided fixtures; it’s not even worth speculating about the scores. The closest matches may well be Samoa v Chile, Australia v Fiji, England v Japan, and South Africa v Romania, now they’ve lost Marx and seeing as how they don’t have a proper 10.
Sounds a bit like the World Test Championship in cricket (not very good) or that thing in football that isn’t the Euros or the qualification for the Euros but is also sort of both or something (also not very good).
Missed the bloody match last night thinking it was later than it actually was. Saw the last few minutes only, after seeing the chat about it here. Game of two halves etc etc, I’m assuming?
@Refit – Quite possibly. The video did seem to keep telling me things along the lines of ‘they defend so they can attack’ or ‘they either kick it to compete for it or they kick it out’ etc.
The impression I got of the game (and I didn’t get to pay attention to all of it) was that Fiji won a shitload of breakdown penalties particularly in defence and didn’t really break through the Australian defence much themselves even if they often made decent ground with their carries as you would expect. They kicked their goals (he did mention this to be fair) and scored a try from the Aussies bollocksing up dealing with a box kick. Not much from Squidge on how they kept winning all those pens. Don’t know for sure if my impression is an accurate one, but it’s how it seemed to me.
What CMW said plus another observation: Fiji’s physicality is immense.
When in attack Fijians seem to trust themselves one on one more than any other team. They easily retain the ball, not commiting two or three players to secure it, therefore there always seem to be more of them than their opponents.
Same applies when they defend. They often don’t need to use two players to tackle, therefore the second one can quickly poach the ball. Hence all their turnovers.
In other words most Fijians have power and pace, not just one or the other.
I think this is right from Flair. A few question marks against them:
1. Was their kicker just having a good day or have they now solved that problem? I guess we’ll see.
2. They possibly benefitted from the referee being quite lenient regarding whether the players challenging over the ball got on the ball straight away. He was consistent so this is not a criticism of him, but other refs may be consistent in a different way.
3. If they don’t win those turnovers and get more players sucked into the rucks which will happen if they get far enough to face Ire/SA/France then have they sorted out their midfield defence which didn’t look too great against Wales (though some credit to Tompkins & North)? Most Aussie attacks seemed to break down before we really got to find out.
They’ve got a great chance to make the semis. Perhaps no better than anyone else from this half of the draw to go further though at least they present a different challenge to the better teams so it would be interesting to see them go up against one of them.
CMW, I think they changed their kicker, didn’t they?
They also changed their midfield, bringing in Tuisova, who usually plays wing in the T14. That was an improvment from the Wales game.
But yes, I agree they’ll have to commit more players to secure their ball vs SA/Ir/Fr.
Speaking of another team, I was quite surprised by Italy. So poor in the first half, and so quick and efficient in the second. My, their coach knows a thing or two and knows how to be understood!
CMW, new Fiji kicker was scrum half Kuruvoli, first game it was Lomani. Lomani has been first choice 9, but presumeably they swapped out as Kuruvoli is a better kicker, after they lost first choice kicker, fly half Caleb Muntz, to a knee injury.
Ticht, the world league project is nothing but a closed shop.
I’d much rather have qualifications for the next WC, with for instance 10 groups of four teams. Twenty would go through as now. Top teams would still qualify (as they do now, the first three in each pool are guaranteed a place at next RWC) but they’d have to face “”minnows” either in the summer or winter. Not as lucrative, but at least we’d develop the game.
Ireland Team (v South Africa, Rugby World Cup 2023, Stade de France, Saturday, September 23, 9pm local time/8pm Irish time)
15. Hugo Keenan (Leinster/UCD)(33)
14. Mack Hansen (Connacht/Corinthians)(18)
13. Garry Ringrose (Leinster/UCD)(54)
12. Bundee Aki (Connacht/Galwegians)(49)
11. James Lowe (Leinster)(23)
10. Johnny Sexton (Leinster/St Mary’s College)(115)
9. Jamison Gibson-Park (Leinster)(27)
1. Andrew Porter (Leinster/UCD)(56)
2. Ronan Kelleher (Leinster/Lansdowne)(23)
3. Tadhg Furlong (Leinster/Clontarf)(69)
4. Tadhg Beirne (Munster/Lansdowne)(43)
5. James Ryan (Leinster/UCD)(57)
6. Peter O’Mahony (Munster/Cork Constitution)(98)
7. Josh van der Flier (Leinster/UCD)(54)
8. Caelan Doris (Leinster/St Mary’s College)(33)
Replacements:
16. Dan Sheehan (Leinster/Lansdowne)(18)
17. David Kilcoyne (Munster/UL Bohemians)(53)
18. Finlay Bealham (Connacht/Buccaneers)(33)
19. Iain Henderson (Ulster/Academy)(76)
20. Ryan Baird (Leinster/Dublin University)(14)
21. Conor Murray (Munster/Garryowen)(109)
22. Jack Crowley (Munster/Cork Constitution)(7)
23. Robbie Henshaw (Leinster/Buccaneers)(66).
What they don’t say in that article, and it was the view presented in the press here, is that this was the price for keeping the 6N intact.
If the Tier 1 unions had been playing the T2 sides all along I could have some sympathy with the viewpoint about development, but, for example, England haven’t played in Fiji since 1991, Wales were there in 1994. Scotland are a little better having played there in 2012, France were last in Suva in 1979, Ireland in 1976.
I’ve reached the point where I don’t really care about the international set up any more, it’s always going to be about the money and protecting the richer teams/teams which bring in the most tv and advertising revenue, I think it’s rather pointless fighting against that now. I’m done tilting at those windmills.
One of the most enjoyable games of rugby I’ve seen recently was when I was in my home town a couple of weeks ago and watched my old club. I had a pint or two with guys I’d played with as 11 year olds and up through school and into the club side, I think I’ll go down that route more.
Ticht, is this acted? Or just a proposal?
I just can’t see the T14 ( and ProD2) clubs agreeing to more release of their players. It’s not just about France but about all these guys playing here. Most 6N and Sanzaar squads have players here, and so do Tonga, Samoa, Fiji , Georgia etc…
When France go on summer tours they usually go for the first two weeks without the T14 semifinalists, as the championship isnt over yet. And dont forget T14 and ProD2 already resumed a month ago!
Flair, Rugby Pass is pretty much the journal of World Rugby, what they say there is what WR propose will happen starting in 2026, bringing in promotion and relegation as from 2030.
I assume WR will mandate test windows for release.
With all due respect, if French teams are playing 26 league games, plus knock outs, that is on them.
The URC sides play 18 regular season games plus knock outs.
Super Rugby plays 14 regular season games.
The Gallagher Premiership sides will play 18 regular season games.
WR can mandate as many test windows as they wish, the French clubs, who enjoy an extremely strong support (and are probably the only one in such a position bar the Irish regions) will politely tell them to do one. It’s not just money but popular support we’re talking about. The French public prefer watching their clubs than some meaningless internationals, and why should we blame them? Too tribal? Too parochial? Try to get a seat in LaR then, the stadium has been sold out for more than 4 years.
France will use this new competition as a way of integrating their U20s and I’m fine with it. The 6N and a few rare internationals are enough for me.
England team to play Chile: 15. Marcus Smith, 14. Henry Arundell, 13. Elliot Daly, 12. Ollie Lawrence, 11. Max Malins 10. Owen Farrell (capt.), 9. Danny Care, 1. Bevan Rodd, 2. Theo Dan, 3. Kyle Sinckler, 4. David Ribbans, 5. George Martin, 6. Lewis Ludlam, 7. Jack Willis, 8. Billy Vunipola
Replacements: Jack Walker, Joe Marler, Will Stuart, Ollie Chessum, Ben Earl, Ben Youngs, George Ford, Joe Marchant
Flair, if clubs refuse to release players during mandated international windows they will face some pretty severe sanctions.
I doubt it will come to that.
I have some experience of French attitudes to rugby, I was envious of the passion that our little mountain village team could engender, and this was a very low level – we’d get hundreds from all across the plateau turning up to watch games on a Sunday, more than would show up for the old first division games I had played in in Scotland.
The coaches, players and fans were far more motivated to win the regional Pyrenean competition than the national one, it meant far more to them, and because of that, to me too.
That was my favourite time playing rugby
That’s what I meant by politely.
Shrug their shoulders and do what they want is what the clubs will do.
Don’t you like the idea that nations should have to qualify for the next WC by actually playing a round robin that would include minnows ?
Ticht- well, about eleven minutes last week, and 6 the week before. Er, thats it. Who knows what he did when he was 11 tho. Could be interesting, expect Arundel and Malins to have have a field day, and so get boosted to the main team, and get rings around them. See also Billy V.
“Don’t you like the idea that nations should have to qualify for the next WC by actually playing a round robin that would include minnows ?”
I’m not sure, I’d have to see fuller proposals, but I could envisage a development France or Ireland team full of 20 and 21 year olds getting some decent game time against Portugal or Spain, that would be good for those big countries and probably also for the so-called minnows.
Scotland and Wales, say, don’t really have that depth so again it’s not a level playing filed, and if qualification for the World Cup was at stake we’d be seeing Finn and George North in our teams for these games, it would be too much of a risk to rest them.
Flair, la 3ème mi-temps was as important as the game when I was with US Plateau de Sault XV.
It was either in a bar or we’d stop the bus on the way home if it was still light and out would come la grilled, the sausages and bread, the wine and of course le cinquante et un,
Namibia kick the ball dead, behind the French try line, from mid-way in their own half. France control the scrum and Jalibert puts a kick into the corner. Bielle-Biarry, the 20yr old debut, smartly chucks the ball back into play, just before he goes into touch and Danty scores.
So it’s 80+ France that have pitched tonight. Poor Namibia, every time they look to have clawed it back to less than a point a minute, France rip them to pieces!
It matters not a jot to the outcome, BP or anything else (will it be 80, will it be 100 etc), but I’m very sceptical about some of the passes in several of the tries. And yes, I understand the physics, but nobody calculates the ‘physics’.
Lovely rugby to watch, but too much of a mismatch to bother with for much longer.
The key thing to take out of this match is that neither the Boks nor Ireland want this French side in the QF. Yeah I know it’s a bit of a stroll, but the skills on display are otherworldly.
Deebee, France have been playing very much within themselves so far, even in the win against New Zealand, but this might well let the genie out of the bottle.
This is fabulous to watch, even if it is semi-opposed
@Deebee – The alternative are not short of skills either of course. The Boks and Ireland will want to avoid France though because they have enough else about them to get to show their skills against them while NZ possibly don’t.
Ovally Balls 
Sounds a bit like the World Test Championship in cricket (not very good) or that thing in football that isn’t the Euros or the qualification for the Euros but is also sort of both or something (also not very good).
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Felt a number of times in that Squidge video that I was hearing a lot of words just to tell me that Fiji were playing rugby.
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Missed the bloody match last night thinking it was later than it actually was. Saw the last few minutes only, after seeing the chat about it here. Game of two halves etc etc, I’m assuming?
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@C.MW – I think he’s been very hamstrung by not being able to use video, to properly show the patterns and stuff.
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@Refit – Quite possibly. The video did seem to keep telling me things along the lines of ‘they defend so they can attack’ or ‘they either kick it to compete for it or they kick it out’ etc.
The impression I got of the game (and I didn’t get to pay attention to all of it) was that Fiji won a shitload of breakdown penalties particularly in defence and didn’t really break through the Australian defence much themselves even if they often made decent ground with their carries as you would expect. They kicked their goals (he did mention this to be fair) and scored a try from the Aussies bollocksing up dealing with a box kick. Not much from Squidge on how they kept winning all those pens. Don’t know for sure if my impression is an accurate one, but it’s how it seemed to me.
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What CMW said plus another observation: Fiji’s physicality is immense.
When in attack Fijians seem to trust themselves one on one more than any other team. They easily retain the ball, not commiting two or three players to secure it, therefore there always seem to be more of them than their opponents.
Same applies when they defend. They often don’t need to use two players to tackle, therefore the second one can quickly poach the ball. Hence all their turnovers.
In other words most Fijians have power and pace, not just one or the other.
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I think this is right from Flair. A few question marks against them:
1. Was their kicker just having a good day or have they now solved that problem? I guess we’ll see.
2. They possibly benefitted from the referee being quite lenient regarding whether the players challenging over the ball got on the ball straight away. He was consistent so this is not a criticism of him, but other refs may be consistent in a different way.
3. If they don’t win those turnovers and get more players sucked into the rucks which will happen if they get far enough to face Ire/SA/France then have they sorted out their midfield defence which didn’t look too great against Wales (though some credit to Tompkins & North)? Most Aussie attacks seemed to break down before we really got to find out.
They’ve got a great chance to make the semis. Perhaps no better than anyone else from this half of the draw to go further though at least they present a different challenge to the better teams so it would be interesting to see them go up against one of them.
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CMW, I think they changed their kicker, didn’t they?
They also changed their midfield, bringing in Tuisova, who usually plays wing in the T14. That was an improvment from the Wales game.
But yes, I agree they’ll have to commit more players to secure their ball vs SA/Ir/Fr.
Speaking of another team, I was quite surprised by Italy. So poor in the first half, and so quick and efficient in the second. My, their coach knows a thing or two and knows how to be understood!
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They did change their kicker, but presumably there is a reason why the new one wasn’t selected in the first game?
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France vs Namibia tonight. I wonder which France will pitch up? It’s the difference between a 50 point and 80 point spanking. We need to know.
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Full strenght France.
But minus Alldritt (knee injury), bad weather in Marseille, Carley at the whistle, Namibia by ten then ( just joking CMW).
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CMW, new Fiji kicker was scrum half Kuruvoli, first game it was Lomani. Lomani has been first choice 9, but presumeably they swapped out as Kuruvoli is a better kicker, after they lost first choice kicker, fly half Caleb Muntz, to a knee injury.
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Ticht, the world league project is nothing but a closed shop.
I’d much rather have qualifications for the next WC, with for instance 10 groups of four teams. Twenty would go through as now. Top teams would still qualify (as they do now, the first three in each pool are guaranteed a place at next RWC) but they’d have to face “”minnows” either in the summer or winter. Not as lucrative, but at least we’d develop the game.
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Harrumph!
Ireland Team (v South Africa, Rugby World Cup 2023, Stade de France, Saturday, September 23, 9pm local time/8pm Irish time)
15. Hugo Keenan (Leinster/UCD)(33)
14. Mack Hansen (Connacht/Corinthians)(18)
13. Garry Ringrose (Leinster/UCD)(54)
12. Bundee Aki (Connacht/Galwegians)(49)
11. James Lowe (Leinster)(23)
10. Johnny Sexton (Leinster/St Mary’s College)(115)
9. Jamison Gibson-Park (Leinster)(27)
1. Andrew Porter (Leinster/UCD)(56)
2. Ronan Kelleher (Leinster/Lansdowne)(23)
3. Tadhg Furlong (Leinster/Clontarf)(69)
4. Tadhg Beirne (Munster/Lansdowne)(43)
5. James Ryan (Leinster/UCD)(57)
6. Peter O’Mahony (Munster/Cork Constitution)(98)
7. Josh van der Flier (Leinster/UCD)(54)
8. Caelan Doris (Leinster/St Mary’s College)(33)
Replacements:
16. Dan Sheehan (Leinster/Lansdowne)(18)
17. David Kilcoyne (Munster/UL Bohemians)(53)
18. Finlay Bealham (Connacht/Buccaneers)(33)
19. Iain Henderson (Ulster/Academy)(76)
20. Ryan Baird (Leinster/Dublin University)(14)
21. Conor Murray (Munster/Garryowen)(109)
22. Jack Crowley (Munster/Cork Constitution)(7)
23. Robbie Henshaw (Leinster/Buccaneers)(66).
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I know it weakens the team a bit, but it’s important they pick the odd Munster or Connacht player to keep the ‘Ireland’ concept alive.
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Flair there is an article here on the proposals.
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/six-nations-sanzaar-statement-new-tournament-to-launch-in-2026/
What they don’t say in that article, and it was the view presented in the press here, is that this was the price for keeping the 6N intact.
If the Tier 1 unions had been playing the T2 sides all along I could have some sympathy with the viewpoint about development, but, for example, England haven’t played in Fiji since 1991, Wales were there in 1994. Scotland are a little better having played there in 2012, France were last in Suva in 1979, Ireland in 1976.
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I’ve reached the point where I don’t really care about the international set up any more, it’s always going to be about the money and protecting the richer teams/teams which bring in the most tv and advertising revenue, I think it’s rather pointless fighting against that now. I’m done tilting at those windmills.
One of the most enjoyable games of rugby I’ve seen recently was when I was in my home town a couple of weeks ago and watched my old club. I had a pint or two with guys I’d played with as 11 year olds and up through school and into the club side, I think I’ll go down that route more.
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Ticht, is this acted? Or just a proposal?
I just can’t see the T14 ( and ProD2) clubs agreeing to more release of their players. It’s not just about France but about all these guys playing here. Most 6N and Sanzaar squads have players here, and so do Tonga, Samoa, Fiji , Georgia etc…
When France go on summer tours they usually go for the first two weeks without the T14 semifinalists, as the championship isnt over yet. And dont forget T14 and ProD2 already resumed a month ago!
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Flair, Rugby Pass is pretty much the journal of World Rugby, what they say there is what WR propose will happen starting in 2026, bringing in promotion and relegation as from 2030.
I assume WR will mandate test windows for release.
With all due respect, if French teams are playing 26 league games, plus knock outs, that is on them.
The URC sides play 18 regular season games plus knock outs.
Super Rugby plays 14 regular season games.
The Gallagher Premiership sides will play 18 regular season games.
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WR can mandate as many test windows as they wish, the French clubs, who enjoy an extremely strong support (and are probably the only one in such a position bar the Irish regions) will politely tell them to do one. It’s not just money but popular support we’re talking about. The French public prefer watching their clubs than some meaningless internationals, and why should we blame them? Too tribal? Too parochial? Try to get a seat in LaR then, the stadium has been sold out for more than 4 years.
France will use this new competition as a way of integrating their U20s and I’m fine with it. The 6N and a few rare internationals are enough for me.
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England team to play Chile: 15. Marcus Smith, 14. Henry Arundell, 13. Elliot Daly, 12. Ollie Lawrence, 11. Max Malins 10. Owen Farrell (capt.), 9. Danny Care, 1. Bevan Rodd, 2. Theo Dan, 3. Kyle Sinckler, 4. David Ribbans, 5. George Martin, 6. Lewis Ludlam, 7. Jack Willis, 8. Billy Vunipola
Replacements: Jack Walker, Joe Marler, Will Stuart, Ollie Chessum, Ben Earl, Ben Youngs, George Ford, Joe Marchant
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This is a fascinating interview with ROG – subjects covered include Ireland/Sexton, La Rochelle, his regard for players like Dupont and Levani Botia
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Flair, if clubs refuse to release players during mandated international windows they will face some pretty severe sanctions.
I doubt it will come to that.
I have some experience of French attitudes to rugby, I was envious of the passion that our little mountain village team could engender, and this was a very low level – we’d get hundreds from all across the plateau turning up to watch games on a Sunday, more than would show up for the old first division games I had played in in Scotland.
The coaches, players and fans were far more motivated to win the regional Pyrenean competition than the national one, it meant far more to them, and because of that, to me too.
That was my favourite time playing rugby
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SBT, has Marcus Smith played fullback much?
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Ticht, the clubs won’t refuse to release the players. They won’t have to. Galthié won’t ask them, et voilà .
He needs his best players for meaningful competitions and the clubs have obliged, he can actually work now with 42 players before any game.
In return , he’ll leave the players with the clubs at the business end of the T14. And won’t be too inquisitive if- when- the clubs tell him so and so is injured. And WR won’t have a say in it.
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Well ok, but that’s not the same as the clubs telling world rugby to go do one.
I imagine many teams will continue to use games against particular sides as development opportunities and rest some others.
The point I’ve continued to try to make here is that actually, very little is changing as a result of these proposals.
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That’s what I meant by politely.
Shrug their shoulders and do what they want is what the clubs will do.
Don’t you like the idea that nations should have to qualify for the next WC by actually playing a round robin that would include minnows ?
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Ticht- well, about eleven minutes last week, and 6 the week before. Er, thats it. Who knows what he did when he was 11 tho. Could be interesting, expect Arundel and Malins to have have a field day, and so get boosted to the main team, and get rings around them. See also Billy V.
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That’s a very strong Irish 23! Only chink in the armour is number 19, but otherwise pretty fearsome.
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“Don’t you like the idea that nations should have to qualify for the next WC by actually playing a round robin that would include minnows ?”
I’m not sure, I’d have to see fuller proposals, but I could envisage a development France or Ireland team full of 20 and 21 year olds getting some decent game time against Portugal or Spain, that would be good for those big countries and probably also for the so-called minnows.
Scotland and Wales, say, don’t really have that depth so again it’s not a level playing filed, and if qualification for the World Cup was at stake we’d be seeing Finn and George North in our teams for these games, it would be too much of a risk to rest them.
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Ticht, I can’t link it but try to read in Rugbyrama the article about Piéter Jan Van Lill.
He’s 40 years old, will play from the bench for Namibia vs France. Was a pro with Dax and Bayonne. And then later, until June he played in the 9th division ( Régionale 2) in Hossegor while trying to get his dentistry French exams. He describes well his daily life, le rugby des villages and what we call ” la 3ème mi-temps”. I hope he scores tonight (a consolation try, no more please).
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Flair, la 3ème mi-temps was as important as the game when I was with US Plateau de Sault XV.
It was either in a bar or we’d stop the bus on the way home if it was still light and out would come la grilled, the sausages and bread, the wine and of course le cinquante et un,
Dog do I miss that? It was such a great time.
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Dupont is so far ahead of everyone else in world rugby right now.
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The France U20s scrum half was quite something too, in fact both of them
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Took France 5 mins to open the scoring. Seems a bit lazy to me.
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Fucks sake, that was brilliant from BB, that kid is special
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I’m going to have to wind it in a bit, but I love watching this French side playing like this
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Namibia kick the ball dead, behind the French try line, from mid-way in their own half. France control the scrum and Jalibert puts a kick into the corner. Bielle-Biarry, the 20yr old debut, smartly chucks the ball back into play, just before he goes into touch and Danty scores.
12-0 to France 10mins
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Maybe a forward pass in there somewhere
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All good, as the comms say, it’s more than that, it’s excellent
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So it’s 80+ France that have pitched tonight. Poor Namibia, every time they look to have clawed it back to less than a point a minute, France rip them to pieces!
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Oh dear
France are really up for it and frankly, Namibia aren’t up to it.
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Oh no, Namibia get all the way up to the French line, but then the 9 tries to dive under the French defenders and he gets turned over.
So close.
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It matters not a jot to the outcome, BP or anything else (will it be 80, will it be 100 etc), but I’m very sceptical about some of the passes in several of the tries. And yes, I understand the physics, but nobody calculates the ‘physics’.
Lovely rugby to watch, but too much of a mismatch to bother with for much longer.
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Ridiculous
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Oh, that chip to the corner by Dupont, for Bielle-Biarry, was a delight.
54-0 Half time.
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The key thing to take out of this match is that neither the Boks nor Ireland want this French side in the QF. Yeah I know it’s a bit of a stroll, but the skills on display are otherworldly.
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Deebee, France have been playing very much within themselves so far, even in the win against New Zealand, but this might well let the genie out of the bottle.
This is fabulous to watch, even if it is semi-opposed
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@Deebee – The alternative are not short of skills either of course. The Boks and Ireland will want to avoid France though because they have enough else about them to get to show their skills against them while NZ possibly don’t.
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