Grumpy? Moi? Well, perhaps still a little hung over after the agony of Ireland going out in the quarter-finals once again. Even if it’s what I expected ever since I first beheld The Draw From Hell, supposing we even made it out of the pool stage. Perhaps World Rugby, who surely can no longer be called Dublin-based, have learnt their lesson and will make the next draw within a millenium of the actual fucking tournament.
Still, there were some cracking matches last weekend, even if all the results were wrong (in my very humble opinion, of course). It’s safe to say that there is not much doubt about this weekend’s results. But who knows? Maybe we’ll get a big surprise and Argentina, despite their relatively poor form, will beat the All Blacks.
We’ve also got English Premiership matches, and the URC kicks off this weekend.
Onna telly this week
Showing matches that are televised in the UK and Ireland or on popular subscription services. Bold indicates free-to-view.
Friday 20th October
| Argentina v New Zealand | 20:00 | ITV1 / STV / S4C / iPlayer |
Saturday 21st October
| Zebre v Ulster | 13:00 | Viaplay Sports 1 |
| Connacht v Ospreys | 15:00 | S4C / iPlayer / TG4 / Viaplay Sports 2 |
| Lions v Stormers | 15:05 | Viaplay Xtra |
| Dragons v Edinburgh | 15:05 | Viaplay Sports 1 |
| Leicester v Sale | 15:05 | TNT Sports 1 |
| Cardiff v Treviso | 17:15 | S4C / iPlayer / Viaplay Sports 1 |
| Munster v Sharks | 17:15 | TG4 / Viaplay Xtra |
| England v South Africa | 20:00 | ITV1 / STV |
Sunday 22nd October
| Bulls v Scarlets | 14:00 | BBC1 Wales / Viaplay Sports 2 |
| Harlequins v Exeter | 15:00 | TNT Sports 1 |
| Glasgow v Leinster | 16:00 | RTÉ2 / Viaplay Sports 1 |
Ovally Balls 
Biggar would be the main one for Wales, the other most obvious candidates having retired before the World Cup instead.
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Halfpenny and Lydiate also I would imagine though neither are in the side very often and have been past their best for some time though obviously Halfpenny in particular has had a great career.
There are a number of others who won’t make the next World Cup, but might well not retire just yet. Faletau, Liam Williams, North, Gareth Davies, Anscombe. Maybe some props. Don’t know if any of these have said anything.
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Deebs Retirees XV – sounds a good game – might it include those who should??
Innocent question, obviously………………………..
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WP Nel will be 41 years years old at the next world cup, but never say never.
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Slade, innocently twisting several knives in several backs at once. Impressive work!
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England news. Sinfield out, Gustard in.
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Playing the coaches in the 3rd place playoff? Bit risky against a fired up Los Pumas.
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Should we do a XV of those retiring/likely retiring after this world cup?
Well, on this side Sexton obviously, Earls is gone too – not just international rugby – and probably O’Mahony at season’s end. Aki seems in 2nd youth – so maybe not … hopefully not – along with Keenan our best player.
We’ve a cohort who probably won’t get to Oz 2027 – Gibson Park, Lowe. Beirne although 31 is fairly lightly raced due to late start to high level career. Henshaw’s injury record isn’t good so he might decide to call it a day if he can’t shake off the niggly injuries of the last while.
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Unfortunately (for me), too busy to comment after the Ireland/NZ game – disappointing doesn’t cut it. Nearly got there – but giving up a 13 point lead was always going to be too difficult too claw back.
Pens in scrum and lineout misfires were killers – unlike a tour we don’t get to come back the next weeks and win the next two….
Not much to add on Eng/SA arm wrestle – Munster fans delighted to see Snyman score and will take some vicarious pleasure – if SA win – from having Kleyn and RG about the place.
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And speaking of Munster – good start to season with a win over the Sharks. Carbery looking something like we hoped he’d be… great to see Edogbo get the first try. High hopes down here that he’ll be a big player for Munster in future seasons.
Glasgow were good value for the win – Leinster’s 2nds (to an extent) but still had a bunch of internationals – albeit you’d wonder under what strange circumstances some got capped – funny to think H Byrne went on the NZ tour in 2022 – ahead of the brother and Crowley. His stock has sunken quite quickly….
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Risk, yer man Healy put in a good performance for Embra on his debut – player of the match no less.
It will be interesting to see what happens if everyone is fit and there is a big game on, Kinghorn is the Scotland starting fullback and was back up fly half in the 23 for the RWC, Healy looks like he will be a real player for Edinburgh now. The back three will be picked from Duhan van der Merwe, Darcy Graham, Emiliano Boffelli and Kinghorn.
Wes Goosen is starting to find his feet after injury ruined last season for him, plus there are a few kids coming up in the backs three that look promising.
We have quality but we were far too easily beaten last year, we scored a lot of tries, we gave away a lot of tries and our goal kicking was one of the worst in the league (Boff had a poor season with the boot by his standards).
It’s very early days but I wasn’t too impressed at the weekend with the two that came into the back row to cover for the World Cup and injury, it would be good to get a clean bill of health for the senior side for a while.
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Trisk, not Risk, obvs.
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@Ticht
Something seemed to click for Healy last season around the time of the SA game in PuC
He’d started the season poorly in the pre-season games – then again Munster were poor early on as they got to grips with Rowntree’s new game plan.
He’d been seen as a “stand and sling” 10 – good pass, can move his team around the field with kicks, good goal kicker but no real running threat – Ross Byrne* is a good example of the type. But he’s started to “play his size” – scored a decent crashball try vs Ulster as we robbed a win.
He was relied on to close out games as Munster progressed through the URC playoffs.
* Not really required by Leinster 10s in their system – Sexton was an exception
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(Boff had a poor season with the boot by his standards).
Wasn’t great at RWC either – I recall seeing him at Thomond in 2021(?) and his kicking made the game tight….
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Well Ben Youngs is retiring after the World Cup, but I suspect Aaron Smith and/or Conor Murray might keep him out of Deebee’s team if either of them call it a day.
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Halfpenny has now confirmed his retirement – 101 caps for Wales and four Lions tests, really important player for us for a long time even though he never really got back to his best after his injury problems. 3rd on the all time points scorers list for Wales despite not always getting the goal-kicking duties – to be honest given that we usually did have other players who could have kicked the goals his biggest contribution would have to be the way he enabled the team to defend which was really missed once things went downhill for him in the last few years. Brilliant at covering the backfield and a very brave player who always seems very likeable.
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Retirees XV up date:
Lawes, Lawes, Lawes, Lawes, Lawes
Sexton, Lawes
Marler, Creevy, Coles
Lawes, Lawes
Lawes, Lawes, Lawes
…………you’re welcome
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@Slade – Much as Lawes will always be celebrated for his contribution to the 2012 Grand Slam and of course has been a very good player for England right up to his retirement I feel you may be slightly overstating his case.
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Apparently Liam Williams and Anscombe are both off to Japan so won’t be available for the 6N and as they’re both 32 you could probably count them as pretty much retired. Anscombe doesn’t stay fit for very long anyway. Obviously Anscombe wouldn’t get in the retirees XV as he would have to replace Biggar who Slade has mistakenly left out. Liam can still get in on the wing with 1/2p at fullback.
Pretty sure we don’t have a replacement for Liam W and the World Cup was a bit much for Costelow so 10 and 15 are likely to be massive problems for Wales in February.
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CMW – not at all!
He’d be a brilliant hooker if he was at least a foot shorter – but Creevy can ‘guest’ as he is a star.
Sexton is in to bring down the ‘likeableness’ quotient, but Biggar would be a good understudy.
If Aaron Smith retires then he gets the 9 spot (sorry for Youngs there – loyal servant and all that, but………. and Murray is too serious)
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Anscombe doesn’t stay fit for very long anyway
Been unlucky – can’t blame him for taking one big payoff while he still can….
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@Trisk – I don’t blame him in the least, point was rather that even if he wasn’t going we’d still be unlikely to see him in a Wales shirt for more than a couple of games.
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@Slade – Although I don’t hold with the way any of them have carried on at referees I think there’s often (though not always) been something more comical and therefore human in Biggar’s antics than there is in either those of Sexton or Farrell.
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The way he completely lost his shit with the rest of the Wales backs on more than one occasion in the Fiji game at the World Cup being a good case in point.
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From a couple of years ago, but the best of Dave Lawes
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And speaking of Dan Biggar
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I realise there are other aspects of outside half play that we might all place above it, but when it comes to chasing up and unders it’s hard to think there’s been a ten who did it better.
Biggar has also always been a fantastic goal kicker from the touchline. There have been a good few others more reliable from better angles or further out, but I think he’s probably who I’d pick from there, certainly got to be in the running for it.
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The Finn Russell yellow card from one of Biggar’s up and unders still rankles – should have been a knock on, scrum Scotland really.
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More seriously, Biggar was what seems like one of those guys who goes into a different personality when the game starts and then changes back when no side is whistled.
I’ve seen it several times at the end of games when he speaks to his opposite number, there is no rancour and lots of smiles and what looks like good natured chat – younger players have spoken about the good advice they’ve had from Biggar.
During the game he comes across as the anti-Finn, just two different players with different ways of going about things.
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@Ticht – Obviously we only see these people in what are quite unnatural circumstances, but I think from post-match stuff and other interviews it’s quite easy to imagine that Biggar might be pretty good company, certainly easier than with some others anyway.
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Yeah, CMW, the thing I was referencing with the younger players is that I remember a Saints match against a team, I don’t exactly which, but a young pup had been thrown in against Biggar for part of it and after the game Biggar took a lot of time out to speak to the young lad.
I saw his debut at Toulon and the week before he played for them he spoke to the crowd in French – that’s not a selfish guy.
My comparison with Finn was that he is perceived as the opposite of “focussed” Biggar, in that people say he is a Maverick, which belies and downplays the hours and hours he spends on the computer analysing the opposition and the hours and hours he spends after training on his kicking.
Biggar is seen as a po-faced win-at-all-costs and stuff the rest of ’em player and Finn is seen as someone who doesn’t give much of a fuck at all.
Neither evaluation is near the truth
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@Ticht – Plenty of truth in what you say to my mind, but you’ll never convince The Middle One that Russell takes the game seriously enough!
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The Russell card for taking Biggar out was a very poor effort. Firstly he didn’t manage to get a red until after the game. Secondly it wasn’t even the harshest yellow on the day as JD2 got a really soft one a few minutes later. And thirdly Stuart Hogg had demonstrated how to do it properly the year before:
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In a decade or two’s time there will be a video on the internet of ‘Great Welsh tries of the 2010s’ and half of them will be from that game with poor innocents watching it not knowing they’re from the same match and that Scotland chose to play about 70 minutes without a fullback.
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I think I prefer this year’s Scotland v Wales game to many of the others.
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I think you can look forward to next year’s one with a fair amount of optimism. In a way we didn’t find out much about Scotland at the World Cup and while Wales did better than expected it still wasn’t all great and there are reasons to think there might be another step back before hopefully improving.
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CMW – genuine question, did Wales do better than expected at the RWC? I thought the only surprise in that pool was just how bad Australia were and that was down to Jones selecting kids in key positions and ignoring tried and trusted test players.
Gatland is a great coach and he gets his teams up for it, but of the opponents qualifying for the quarters, Argentina were probably Wales’ best bet.
I’m not being mean here, it’s just that I’ve read the same thing elsewhere from Welsh fans, that Wales did better than expected, Shirley qualification from that pool was the minimum requirement?
I just don’t see how Wales can expect to lose to Fiji, Fiji were ranked one place below Wales so it wouldn’t have been a shock if the result had gone either way, but still, I for one would have been surprised if Wales had lost that.
Meanwhile, Scotland did exactly as expected, duffed out of the pool by two of the best sides in the world who we have no real reply to, we don’t have the pack to mess with them.
England did really well against SA by refusing to play rugby so the blitz had no effect – we have no hope of doing that.
Against Ireland we were outplayed, plain and simple.
We expected to win the other games comfortably and so it proved.
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@Ticht – Beating Aus 40-6 was definitely a lot better than expected, beating Fiji was expected to be very much touch and go which of course is how it turned out. Having done that then I think most Wales supporters (me included) would have been optimistic about the Argentina game so that was a disappointment. Not a huge shock though and we were still at least very competitive in that match and did suffer quite badly with injuries. A lot of pundits had us either not getting out of the group or squeaking through in second so I think I’ll stick to ‘better than expected but not all great’.
England are better placed than either Scotland or Wales to get up to the level needed to compete with France or Ireland especially if one or other drop off a bit – they always have the player base to put out a team that will do a lot of basic stuff well enough to compete most of the time and when they get other things right will be up there. Doesn’t mean either of our teams can’t ever compete of course.
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I may if course be proved wrong, but I can’t see a lot of hope for England until they change tack and select the likes of Arundel and Smith as starters, or even get Ford or Faz playing how they do for their clubs – England have huge resources compared to most countries, they just don’t use them
Spoiling against an exhausted South Africa before ultimately losing the game may have papered over a lot of cracks as far as the RFU are concerned.
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Dane Coles is the only AB officially retiring, though Smith, Whitelock, Retallick, Mo’unga, Frizell, B.Barrett, and Laulala are all off to France or Japan.
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Whitelock has enough caps. He needs to let someone else have a go.
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The way he completely lost his shit with the rest of the Wales backs …in the Fiji game
That was funny – walking off the pitch at half time…. shaking the head and going “fuck me!” – I totally agreed with him
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Bok side for Saturday – it’s the Big Bomb Squad, with a 7-1 split again. Management obviously expecting another wet and slippery night in Paris, which will limit a more adventurous style. Except the Kiwis play well in the wet anyway. No real surprises, Big Trev in the squad because Vincent Koch has tweaked something, Pollard and Faf to start at halfback, which is expected given Manie’s woeful kicking in the semi (out of hand and for posts) and Reinach’s struggles two weeks in a row to get any distance on his box kicks. Rest of the backs are as they were for the SF, as is the starting pack.
The Bomb Squad sees the all Munster second row of Kleyn and Snyman behind Ox, Trev and Deon Fourie (who probably won’t play hooker unless Bongi is injured or completely puffed), with Jasper Wiese the back up loose forward and Kwagga the back up 6-8 and 11-15 in an emergency, with Wille le Roux the only actual back on the bench. I’m shitting myself that we get an early injury at hooker or 9 especially, but pretty much anywhere in the backs, which will require seriously shuffling around. Big gamble. May it pay off on red and black.
15 Damian Willemse, 14 Kurt-Lee Arendse, 13 Jesse Kriel, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Cheslin Kolbe, 10 Handré Pollard, 9 Faf de Klerk, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Pieter-Steph du Toit, 6 Siya Kolisi, (captain), 5 Franco Mostert, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Frans Malherbe, 2 Bongi Mbonambi, 1 Steven Kitshoff.
Replacements: 16 Deon Fourie, 17 Ox Nche, 18 Trevor Nyakane, 19 Jean Kleyn, 20 RG Snyman, 21 Kwagga Smith, 22 Jasper Wiese, 23 Willie le Roux.
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The Bomb Squad sees the all Munster second row of Kleyn and Snyman
You can imagine how this has gone down in (some) Munster circles ….
Kleyn got a lot of stick from Dublin press because he stopped (a washed up) Toner going to RWC 2019… mercenary, journeyman etc –
Discernible element of – not quite racism but close -Saffer bad, Aussie (Hansen) or Kiwi (Lowe) – good
And we even had to listen to O’Driscoll saying he “wasn’t international standard” (along with how Jimmy O’Brien was worth a punt at 10) which is why Farrell didn’t give him a run in last 4 years……
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Trisk, it’s not going down well here either. People want to know why we’ve picked the only Irishman to make it past a QF.
I drive past the school that Jean Kleyn went to on my way to work every day, and they’ve put up a massive poster of him along the school wall. At least one Joburg boy got there! There’s plenty of partisan sniping down here as well, and still, albeit thankfully declining levels of actual racism when it comes to squad selection. The bigots still roll their eyes and say ‘affirmative selection’ or ‘political selection’ every time a black player cocks up, but when a white one does, it’s just part of rugby. Although if they’re from the Stormers at the moment, then it’s because they’re Rassie’s pet players and can’t be dropped. Humanity, eh? Why, oh why, Lord, did you put us in charge?
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You can imagine how this has gone down in (some) Munster circles ….
Just to clarify – we’re delighted for him….
We also think he should have been in Irish panel (prob ahead of McCarthy – who played well, but has years to go)
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Jeez, even whatshisface in Invictus did a better accent than this plonker! I do have a Lion Lager Bok jersey from the 1995 World Cup still though!
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Don’t have a Range Rover or dogs that bite postmen though.
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In general I guess cliches and stereotypes do tend to exist for a reason, but my experience of South Africans over here (on the sport front at least) has mainly been that while the very strongly held, perhaps overly forthright and often rather unsympathetic opinions are often there you tend to get them as a result of asking for them rather than them being forced on you. I’ve often found talking about rugby to them remarkably similar to talking to New Zealanders who also mainly seem to wait until they feel they need to correct people before letting them know ‘how it is’. Of course in both cases their team have normally won or can reasonably be expected to be about to win so that probably has something to do with it!
My sample is quite a small one though and possibly by chance one made up of disproportionately fucked-up individuals (on the South African front rather than the NZ one as it happens).
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