Well, well, well, I really enjoyed the opening round of the 2024 Six Nations. I didn’t see Ireland smashing France like that and it’s always nice when it’s not your team imploding like Scotland did against Wales (although I thought the win was just about deserved in the end). Italy were a lot better and England feel brand new so what does that mean for the second weekend? Take a seat, young ‘uns, and let Uncle Craig’s tell you EXACTLY how it will play out.
Scotland vs France
Will either team be as bad as they were in parts last week? No, I don’t think so. Scotland have won four out of their last five matches against France in Murrayfield and have always been competitive in recent years. Toonie has shuffled the deck and Jamie Ritchie is oot with Rory Darge taking his place (although at 7 with Fagerson at 6). Which is quite significant seeing as he was the former captain, but (apparently) form and fitness have dropped off.
France have changed two: Bielle-Biarrey is now on the wing and Gabrillagues is in the pack to replace Willemse who is on the naughty step. No surprises for me here.
France missed Dupont last week and will miss him this week. Scotland will be looking to build on their win and won’t drop off like they did against a callow Welsh team. However, if France can find their groove it should make for an interesting match. I am going for a narrow win for the Scots given their recent Murrayfield form and a suspected kick up the arse in training this week. Looking forward to it.
24 – 21 to the Scots.
England vs Wales
So, the main event innit. Third best side in the world at home, etc. I think this Welsh team are too inexperienced at the moment. It’s one thing to throw it around against a team who have put nearly 30 points on you and you have a roaring home crowd at your back (especially when the other side commits 16 penalties in a row) but another to do it again in an away game. Don’t get me wrong, both sides are fairly new but I think England will win comfortably.
No changes for England; quite a few for the Welsh. North is back at 13, Mann is an injury replacement at 6, Tomos Williams at 9, Lloyd at 10 and Gareth Thomas, Dee and Assiratti make for a completely changed starting front row.
As I said, both teams are rebuilding but England look more settled (given the number of changes) and are at home. So I expect a comfortable win but this expectation has come back to bite me before.
27 – 20 to Engerlaaaaaaannnnnddddd!!!!!
Ireland vs Italy
The last game of the weekend will be a ‘Pro-displeasing hammering for Italy. Having dispatched France in Lyon last week Ireland are playing some great rugby at the moment. Skilful forwards, intimidating backs: I can only see this going one way. Italy will be competitive in parts and will score some tries but it won’t be enough.
Both sides have made a few changes. Andy Faz has shuffled the back row and given Doris the captaincy; Casey is at 9 and McCloskey is at 13. Amongst the changes for Italy, they get Capuozzo back, which will sharpen their attacking edge, and Varney and Zuliani will start. It won’t help them though.
Ireland will be physical, ruthless, aggressive and will rule every facet of play. Italy will be everyone’s favourite underdog but will probably get carded at least once. Easy home win for the Green Meanies.
50 – 15 to Ireland.
Cheers!
Unbounded optimism by Craigsman.
Onna telly this weekend
Showing matches that are televised in the UK and Ireland or on popular subscription services. Bold indicates that it’s on a free to view channel. Times are in the UK zone, so adjust as necessary.
Friday 9th February
| Ireland v Italy U20s | 19:15 | iPlayer |
| England v Wales U20s | 19:15 | S4C / iPlayer |
| Scotland v France U20s | 20:00 | iPlayer |
Saturday 10th February
| Scotland v France | 14:15 | BBC1 |
| England v Wales | 16:45 | ITV1 / S4C / RTÉ2 / STV |
Sunday 11th February
| Ireland v Italy | 15:00 | ITV1 / STV |
Ovally Balls 
From the Graun:
The recording, obtained by the Mail on Sunday, had Ali saying: “The Egyptians are saying that they warned Israel 10 days earlier … Americans warned them a day before [that] … there’s something happening. They deliberately took the security off, they allowed … that massacre that gives them the green light to do whatever they bloody want.”
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Ah, thanks for the clarification Deebee. Looks like what I heard was a bit exaggerated. Still don’t think a prospective candidate should be saying things like that, if they aren’t 100% proved.
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There was also the quote from an IDF intelligence operative, supported by a senior colleague, who said she had been warning of a potential attack for several months, and in the weeks before had repeatedly been told it was not relevant information.
Quoting from the Jerusalem post can’t be anti-semetic, can it ?
https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-774862
Maybe it can if you are a member of the Zionist Labour party.
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Refit – I absolutely agree that he was stupid to say it at a public meeting.
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It isn’t a question of political position, or internet conspiracy theories, imho, but basic reality check. The Intelligence agency in question is almost certainly the most organised and efficient in the world, they can operate with impunity in virtually every western country openly, and don’t have any of the restrictions that other agencies have ( ie having to spend at least as much effort concealing what they are doing as actually doing it). It beggars belief that they didn’t have a fairly good idea of exactly the size and scale of the operation, and probably the exact date too.
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From the available information, there are only two plausible conclusions to draw. Firstly, that there was a massive failure of care by a large swathe of Israeli defence and intelligence services, who were all sitting around by the pool with a cocktail in their hands not giving a flying fuck about the security of the country, or secondly, that they knew what was coming, and let it happen so that they could then take action. It MAY be that they underestimated the efficiency of the insurgents, but even that is unlikely.
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I have vented now, Thaum, you are welcome to delete all my recent posts about this, it is a rugby blog after all.
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SBT, since when has this been solely a rugby blog? It’s a great place for rugby lovers to discuss and vent about a wide range of things, even rugby, on occasion!
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Yes, what Deebee said!
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Yes, what Deebee said!
I trust you’ll be as generous in June!
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I doubt it.
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Starmer has completely lost the plot now: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/13/labour-suspends-second-parliamentary-candidate-over-israel-comments
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Thaum – it’s even better/worse than you think
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Refit – and Ali was previously supported by another (right-wing) Jewish Labour member who had quit over the anti-Semitism row and returned, which is probably why they dithered over chucking him under the bus.
Imo, Ali’s initial statement about Israel being aware of the impending Hamas attack was nothing but foolish, but then he apparently also said something about a ‘Jewish quarter’ in the media, which is clearly out of line.
But Jones? He said that world leaders probably go home and say ‘fucking Israel’, which is what most of us will say when watching the news these days. We also said ‘fucking Hamas’ when the initial attacks took place, but a bit of proportionality is in order.
It’s also worth mentioning that there are (or were – many have been kicked out) a lot of left-wing Jewish members in the Labour Party who abhor the actions of the state of Israel. I hate this conflation of criticism of the acts of the Israeli government with anti-Semitism. From what I’ve read, a large number of Israelis are pretty disgusted too, but they bloody elected him.
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There is another Jewish group within the Labour Party who can and do criticise the acts of the Israeli government: https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/
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There seems to be a bit of a buzz around 19 year old centre Wilhelm de Klerk, his family moved to Ireland when he was 10 due to work and stayed on because they enjoyed it.
One to watch out for, perhaps.
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@Flair
Was Crowley injured during the WC?
No – he was the replacement 10 whenever Sexton started – but got no minutes at all vs NZ. (which Munster fans are thankful for – or he’d have been tagged as the guy “who lost us the game …why didn’t Sexton stay on?”)
Sexton stayed on to the end of his final game like some kind of farewell tour
But yes, you’d have to think a 10 with a running game might have found a gap or forced a decision on NZ
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There seems to be a bit of a buzz around 19 year old centre Wilhelm de Klerk
@ticht
There’s a few players in that U20s squad that have “expectations” attached – Hugh Gavin, the other centre, Evan O’Connell – 2nd row and captain (nephew of Paul), Brian Gleeson – no8 (didn’t play vs Italy). Sean Edogbo – younger brother of Edwin – scored winning try.
Similar to the U20s last year – lot of chat about #10 Prendergast and THP Paddy McCarthy (younger brother of Joe).
But there’s a huge leap from U20s to senior rugby – lads who tore it up in U20s don’t make the step up.
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Trisk, I’m not sure “tearing it up” could be applied to many Scottish U20s in recent years due to the team’s record, but there has been a decent number who have made the transition from “looking like a good prospect” at that level to become established internationals, from the current team, George Turner, Euan Ashman, Zander Fagerson, Grant Gilchrist, Scott Cummings, Jamie Ritchie, Rory Darge, Luke Crosbie, Darcy Graham, Adam Hastings and Blair Kinghorn all fit that bill.
Finn played U20s but I don’t recall much noise about him, I should have included Jonny Gray in the list – when Richie Gray came on to the scene I remember lots of people saying, “wait till you see his brother”.
For those outside of Scotland, I think our predicament can be summarised by Connor Boyle’s story, he was always seen as part of a duo with Rory Darge, their birthdays are days apart and they came up through the age groups together in the back row of various teams. Boyle was expected to make the grade before Darge.
Obviously we only have to two teams and Darge and Boyle were languishing as probably eighth and ninth choice at Edinburgh. Glasgow had an injury crisis and Rory Darge was moved over to them. He hit the ground running and in a handful of games established himself as the first choice seven and now a couple of years later he’s displaced Hamish Watson as the starting 7 for Scotland and Jamie Ritchie as the captain in the national team.
Connor Boyle is probably now fifth choice at Edinburgh, coming up behind him is Liam McConnell, Tom Currie (brother of centre Matt Currie) and Freddie Douglas – all of whom are in the Scotland U20s and aligned to Edinburgh. McConnell and Douglas (18 years old) especially are making a bit of a splash.
There aren’t enough games over two teams to allow players to develop and many just fade away out of the system and pursue other careers, some end up in Pro D2 or Nationale, some go to Championship clubs in England, but those opportunities are drying up as rules abroad change and teams tighten their belts.
We just don’t have the finances to start a third prop team, so we end up with players hitting a bottleneck and the competition for international places isn’t as strong as it should/could be.
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@ticht
This year’s U20s seem a bit better – the poor lads who had 80(?) put on them last year in Cork were completely outmatched.
Seems like the lack of a third pro team is the issue – I know ye had one in Borders but it folded (bit like the fifth Welsh team). (For many reasons, Ireland were lucky – provinces were recognised groupings and not just in rugby, each province had a strong centre/focal point, schools system in Leinster and Ulster – and to somewhat lesser extent in Munster - provided a steady flow of players)
With 4 teams there’s more opportunities but more competition – probably not enough flow between provinces eg Leinster were stockpiling 10s, Ulster seemed to have centres galore, and Munster have a lot of backrows – probably speaks to how rugby is played by preference in each province.
I suppose the team thing is catch 22 – not enough money for a 3rd one, but won’t be successful without it…
it’s not that long ago (2004?) that there was a proposal to sideline Connacht as a development team – IRFU bit the bullet and speculated to accumulate. Connacht haven’t been a full blown success but – and this’ll hurt Thaum – they’ve won a trophy more recently than Ulster….(and Munster before last season)
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Stabbed! Right in the heart!
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@ticht
Mentioning de Klerk….
There’s an ongoing “gag” in IRT (Irish rugby twitter) and other online forums that van der Flier is a Saffer project player – boy do a cohort of Leinster fans (and “reply guys”) get agitated by the suggestion that Leinster would employ “a filthy Saffer”**
It’s mainly driven by Munster fans but occasionally picked up by Saffers who get the gag - its not that funny but it still gets mileage – it’s surprising how many still haven’t as we say he “copped on” to the gag
I suspect it’ll get a new lease of life from de Klerk – eg he’s Faf’s younger brother
** no offence meant Deebee….. some Leinster “fans” felt they were superior for not playing SA-style rugby – it was Munster who had Stander, and van Graan, and Jean Kleyn and Jaco Taute etc etc and Leinster gave us “Leinstertainment” ……. and but now they have Jenkins, Nienaber, and Snyman
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Back to our conversation of last night….
The meeting that both now-suspended Labour candidates attended turns out not to have been a public one. Having read this, I now think the real villain of the piece is whoever leaked it to the Mail on Sunday, possibly for money?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/13/grassroots-labour-meeting-party-turmoil-suspended-candidates-azhar-ali-graham-jones
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Trisk, this season the SRU have included a Futures team in the Super 6 (the level below Ed/Glas which is not even semi -pro, they get paid £3000 per year, which covers, errr not a lot)
The difference has been obvious in this year’s U20s Six Nations, so far the pack has managed to front up against Wales and France, that doesn’t mean it will continue against the other three, but so far so good. There are a good few 18 year olds in the side too, but injuries are already taken their toll on the squad, we are very short in some positions going into the game against England a week on Friday.
There are a couple of guys who are 17 and although they are able to play Super 6, World Rugby doesn’t allow them to play U20s, which I understand completely.
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I should have said that the Futures team is made up from a lot of the U20s squad – the ones who aren’t already starting for the Super 6 club teams themselves.
Scotland being Scotland, the old clubs resent the Super 6 as it means they are knocked down a peg in the prestige stakes and want the Super 6 disbanded.
They are one of a few reasons why Scotland hasn’t won the 6N since the last iteration of the 5N.
Oh aslo I should have said that Scotland started with four pro teams, Ed, Glas, Borders and North (not their names, but it’s more explanatory to put it that way)
We couldn’t afford them – the SRU had put all its eggs into the rebuilding Murrayfield basket as the international side paid for the entire sport in Scotland at that time. I could go on, but I need to go to sleep.
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<i>Scotland being Scotland, the old clubs resent the Super 6 as it means they are knocked down a peg in the prestige stakes</i>
We get same stuff here “senior” clubs are jealous of just about everything - juniors then take the view that everything the seniors suggest (good, bad or indifferent) is a plot to gather more funding etc by seniors…. and basically “do down” the juniors.
A lot of the current Munster panel are from junior clubs – even though once in the academy they get attached to AIL / senior clubs – Hodnett, Ahern, Crowley, Coombes, both Wycherleys, Edogbo
My own club have gotten into the Munster last 8 at U18.5 and U16 age groups.
U18s will go well to go further – razor-thin pale (18, max 20) ,very lucky with injuries, and now drawn away to Waterpark a noted underage powerhouse. Beat Garryowen home and away -after the second match a Garryowen coach asked my son if he was ‘maybe’ going to college in Limerick?
U16s should reach semi final - not yet lost this season – good all-round team….big, athletic ball carriers but decent backs - play with my middle son and another lad as basically 2 10s – one left footed, one right footed. Have a gangling 2nd row who will win 95% of his own throws and mess up 50% of opposition
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@ticht
where was the 4th”North” region based – can’t recall it at all? Border Reivers I remember. Seemed odd, you couldn’t make that work – maybe small populations in the Borders?
My memory of olden Scottish sides was the bulk from Borders (Melrose, Hawick, Galashiels, Jedburgh) and Edinburgh with “Broon frae Troon” as a novelty from the Glasgow/west
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Trisk – small populations in the Borders, plus VERY localised clubs. I suspect they were very much the poor relations of the ‘professional’ clubs. According to Wiki (I know), there was a lot of complaints locally that the SRU wanted to boost rugby in Glasgow at the expense of the Borders which is where a fair few of the Reivers players ended up.
The North region moved around a bit from Stirling to Perth to Aberdeen to Dundee.
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Driving down to the Wild Coast in the Eastern Cape. Thauma, you’ll be delighted to know it’s just hit 37.5° C in Komani, my wife’s hometown!
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Trisk, BB has provided the answer, just to flesh it out a little, the four sides were based on the old Inter District Championship, which kicked off in 1953 – an expansion on the 1872 Cup which was played between Edinburgh and Glasgow (still is, in fact). The North and Midlands became Caledonia Reds and the South of Scotland because the Border Reivers. As BB says, the Reivers merged with Edinburgh (this is how the likes of Ross Ford became an Edinburgh player) and the Cal Reds merged with Glasgow.
I realise it’s a niche topic, but the history of rugby in the Borders is well set out in a book called Southern Comfort (I bet TomP has read it)
My recollection from the book was that the clubs could never agree on where the pro team should play – supporters from Galashiels were loathed to go the Hawick to watch the Reivers and vice versa, same with Melrose or Jedburgh or wherever, there was also a time and financial clash with going to watch the local club side – this is a large area which has a population of around 100k, so when you strip out this who are not interested in rugby or are too young or too old, you don’t have many left to cover a dozen clubs across the towns.
There are a couple of funny stories I remember about the rivalry, but I’ll leave them for another time – just one though, people from Galashiels are nicknamed Pail Merks – this is supposedly due to Hawick having indoor sanitation before Gala, hence they had merks on their arses from the pail they used for a toilet.
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Deebee – I could deal with that if it were in Fahrenheit.
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“I’d raither be a lamppost in Selkirk than Provost o’ Hawick”
This statement can be amended to suit the Border toons of your choosing…
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What was that we were saying about Scottish Rugby organisation and routes to the professional teams?
(Apologies, this might a long URL)
https://www.theoffsideline.com/super-series-to-be-disbanded/?fbclid=IwAR2mfOsEUAdIVDOE5Wjq0LZ1ZbRX_Ka5ocuOGK-GfgyCD-IYfB2OxnUwy8Y
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BB, love reading comments on more down to earth rugby sites. This my favourite from that post :-
“
Trouble with that is that the rural clubs will be hammered if you move the season. It’s bad enough at the back end of it when the lambing starts and you lose a chunk of your lads to it. If it was made, let’s say, a summer sport, you’d lose even more of your players to silaging and slurrying.”
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Bit more detail on the demise of the Super Six. (Strangely, no mention of slurrying, although we may well be in deep shit anyway if this new system doesn’t work…)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/68314850
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BB, I could greet. This is all about the clubs and their jealousy – they think it’s still the 1970s
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Never mind Ticht, at least Embra won at Zebre – just.
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Look away Ticht & Borderboy
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However, this starts with *THAT* pass from Finn, against England. His eyes, he did them with his eyes!
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Refit – don’t need Squidge to answer that. Simply because we’re Scotland and we’ll find a way…
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I somehow missed Schoeman conceding a penalty off a nut-shot, during the match. Punished twice there.
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Great Treviso try in the second minute at the RDS!
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Went away for some errands, and now it’s 28-18. BP to Leinster. But Treviso still in it! A little over 20 mins to go.
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Leinster Leinstered.
Rey Leelo has just been red-carded for a nasty head collision with Connacht’s Bolton that looked to put him out cold. Don’t think Leelo had any intention, but it was careless.
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Cardiff have scored two tries anyway.
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Although the second one is up for review….
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Yeah, chalked off.
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Connacht win in the end, which was quite surprising despite the red card. Cardiff easily survived going down to 13 for a while, but it fell apart towards the end.
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19:35 – Glasgow kick off against the Dragons
19:37 – Glasgow score a try against the Dragons.
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Glasgow doing a try a minute. This could be a large score!
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