In their infinite wisdom, World Rugby chose to schedule the World Cup in a country that is prone to typhoons at this time of year, and to make absolutely no contingency plans should a typhoon threaten.
In a development that appears to have taken the organisers completely by surprise, there is a typhoon headed in Japan’s direction, and two matches have been cancelled, with Japan v Scotland still in doubt.
France will miss out on the possibility of beating England to top their group, and Italy will miss out on a historic chance to beat the All-Blacks and progress to the quarter-finals for the first time.
All right, nobody thinks that Italy would have beaten New Zealand, but it’s a funny old game and a couple of red cards, or another sneaky peek at the rule-book, could have produced the upset of the century. Apparently we’ll never know.
As Parisse said:
“It is ridiculous that a decision of this nature has been made because it isn’t like the fans arrived yesterday. It is ridiculous that there was no plan B, because it isn’t news that typhoons hit Japan.
“Sure everyone might think that Italy versus New Zealand being cancelled counts for nothing because we’d have lost anyway, but we deserved to be respected as a team. We had the chance to play in a big stadium, against a great team.
“The alternative is plan B. When you organise a World Cup you should have one in place.”
Should the Japan v Scotland match be cancelled, all three teams in Pool A contention will have reason to feel aggrieved also: Scotland for obvious reasons, Japan because it is not the way you’d want to go through, and Ireland because they miss the chance to top the pool (that being in Scotland’s gift, rather than Ireland’s hands, of course).
Quite frankly, World Cup should be handed a red card for bringing the game into disrepute. Players and fans alike (and no doubt the sponsors too) are rightly furious.
These matches should be rescheduled in alternative locations.
Last weekend’s rugby
For a rundown on the state of play as of 07/10, please see Deebee’s excellent synopsis.
On the telly this week … or not
Friday 11th October
| Australia 27 – 8 Georgia | 11:15 | ITV4 |
| Cheetahs 40 – 16 Munster | 17:15 | Premier Sports 1 |
| Dragons 14 – 38 Connacht | 19:35 | Premier Sports 2 / TG4 / S4C |
| Leinster 40 – 14 Edinburgh | 19:35 | Premier Sports 1 |
| Gloucester 24 – 26 Bath | 19:45 | BT Sport 1 |
Saturday 12th October
| New Zealand v Italy | 05:45 | CANCELLED |
| England v France | 09:15 | CANCELLED |
| Ireland 47 – 5 Samoa | 11:45 | ITV |
| Kings 17 – 42 Ulster | 15:00 | Premier Sports 2 |
| Scarlets 54 – 10 Zebre | 15:00 | Freesports |
| Ospreys v Treviso | 19:35 | Premier Sports 2 |
| Glasgow v Cardiff | 19:35 | Premier Sports 1 |
Sunday 13th October
| Namibia v Canada | 04:15 | ITV |
| USA v Tonga | 06:45 | ITV |
| Wales v Uruguay | 09:10 | ITV / S4C |
| Japan v Scotland | 11:45 | ITV |
Yeah, I missed that scenario, CMW, fair enough
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Lies and the lying liars who tell them:
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I guess Ireland could still get a cuddle in the final. But will they still want one if the Boks have cuddled Wales in the semi?
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The lack of contingency planning is just plain weird, as the expected not the unexpected has happened.
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And the crack in everything that let’s the light get in seems to be closing too, Thauma.
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Iks – aye, it’s the cracks of doom at the mo.
CMW’s comments about cuddling reminded me of a possible ATL that I started writing yonks ago and never finished. Just found it. I may publish it when this WC madness is over, finished or not.
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Good news for Wales. If – and I hope we do – we beat Uruguay and get the bonus point that’ll put us on 19 points from the group games. Should our quarter final and semi final be cancelled because of a typhoon, we’ll be awarded the game thanks to the first tie-breaker – match points in group play.
Then we hope the weather clears up so we can play Scotland in the final.
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Brilliant TomP, but you know Scotland would skin us in the final. Still, runner-up is not to be sniffed at.
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Pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffttttttttttttttttttttttt
Wales. Nailed on. With REALLY BIG FUCKING NAILS.
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So my dickhead neighbour raised an objection. Here are the ramblings of an utter, utter synt:
“We don’t object to the extension per se, rather we have concerns to the width. As neighbours with our only entrance to our flat being adjacent to the new extension we have three main concerns. Firstly, we are currently renting accommodation elsewhere whilst our property is being rebuilt after a house fire. When we move back in, we can see it will be tricky getting our furniture back into/out of our property with the severely reduced access path after this extension. With it being not only narrower but longer too it makes manouvering much trickier. It will also reduce the only light into our dark entrance stairway. Finally it will be detrimental to the character of both listed buildings.”
We are just widening an existing extension which was shit anyway. Burning the fucking houses down is detrimental to the character of the fucking listed buildings. It’s also complete nonsense. Fucking motherfucker.
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So my dickhead neighbour raised an objection. Here are the ramblings of an utter, utter synt:
“We don’t object to the extension per se, rather we have concerns to the width. As neighbours with our only entrance to our flat being adjacent to the new extension we have three main concerns. Firstly, we are currently renting accommodation elsewhere whilst our property is being rebuilt after a house fire. When we move back in, we can see it will be tricky getting our furniture back into/out of our property with the severely reduced access path after this extension. With it being not only narrower but longer too it makes manouvering much trickier. It will also reduce the only light into our dark entrance stairway. Finally it will be detrimental to the character of both listed buildings.”
We are just widening an existing extension which was shit anyway. Burning the fucking houses down is detrimental to the character of the fucking listed buildings. It’s also complete nonsense. Fucking motherfucker.
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MrIks,
Kicking competition could be coming into play. WP Nel to win it I reckon.
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I’ve just been sent this
According to Astronomy, when you wish upon a star you’re actually a few million years too late.
The star is dead.
Just like your dreams.
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Sounds like being a Scotland football fan…
Russia doing to the Scotland football team what Scotland did to the Russian rugby team. And the score might not be far off the same either.
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“WP Nel to win it I reckon.”
That would be hilarious, really, project player prop kicks Scotland to world cup victory.
Outstanding.
Craigs, that sounds like a nightmare scenario given you have to live next door to them.
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And breathe.
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I didn’t know there was a game on BB.
I can’t watch Scotland these days, it’s painful when you’ve grown up watching the players we did.
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Ticht – they’re just really selfush and self absorbed. And idiotic. They’ve had 6 weeks to mention this.
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@BB – better kidnap a few teenage footballers and get them to flirt with the national team.
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Hey, at least Scotland are above San Marino in the group, a country with a smaller population than Inverness.
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Someone on the Glasgow forum has copied Brian Moore’s twitter thread on the Typhoon Hagibis situation
I’v spoken to people from World Rugby and the SRU today about the typhoon disruption. The following seems relevant –
1. All teams signed up to the tournament rules, but they were mindful of the ‘robust contingency plans’ said to be in place
2. The typhoon, whilst large and potentially destructive, will not affect the whole country. There are places where posponed games could be played on the scheduled days or shortly after.
3. 2 camps – those wanting to stick to agreement & those wanting flexibility
4. I’m told New Zealand, and this comes from the people I spoke to, not me, insisted on sticking rigidly to the rules because they didn’t want a shorter turnaround before the 1/4 finals. They are perfectly entitled to take this view.
5. Scotland will argue that the force majeure clause in the agreement allows the rules to be varied by agreement of the participants and World Rugby. I’m told that Japan are embarassed about the issue and would play later if allowed.
6. Italy, though vey remote potential qualifiers wanted to play later.
7. Though the cost and logistics are difficult, the teams who want to play offered just to take their squads and ancillary staff.
8. WR insist cancellation of all affected games is the only fair solution.
From me
a. Rules shouldn’t be absolute in extreme situations. No team created the difficulty but some are getting an advantage.
b. Some say teams on their last chance should have played better earlier, but it depends on the pool draw. Some, like England, had easier games 1st.
c. Unless it’s impossible, qualification should be by playing cost and disruption irrelevant.
d. I know it is not simple to move squads and support staff but surely contingency plans did, or should have, anticipated this.
e. If it’s too dangerous for fans, play behind closed doors. I’m sure fans would prefer this to their team exiting without a game.
f. The wider rugby/sporting viewers have already reacted negatively
g. In a flagship event, every effort, short of the practically impossible, should be made to play the games as drawn even if not as scheduled.
h. I’m not minimising the gravity of this & sympathise with WR but this hasn’t been good for the game’s image.
i. I’m constantly told rugby is a player’s game and there are players, long-serving and single caps, who will not have the chance to play in another RWC.
he also added
A final point – your view will be influenced by your allegience. Would you, honestly, have the same view if your team was one of those negatively affected?
I’d add one thought from journalist Tom English on the Rulz is Rulz camp –
“In the participation agreement given to each country, it says there is a clause that effectively amounts to force majeure and that clause does allow some wiggle room in terms of pushing a game back a day.”
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Not for long – we play them on Sunday. Think we could get that typhoon to appear over Glasgow?
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Kipper article
Afurious row has broken out in Japan where Scottish rugby chiefs have notified World Rugby of their intention to take legal action to ensure that the governing body of rugby’s World Cup does “whatever it takes” to ensure that Scotland’s final pool game against Japan is played.
The Scots’ legal advice is that under tournament rules there is flexibility to adjust the tournament schedule in cases of force majeure, and that the arrival of Typhoon Hagibis clearly qualifies as such.
At a series of lengthy and bad-tempered meetings, which lasted for most of Thursday and ended late into the evening, Scottish Rugby’s chief executive Mark Dodson – who was described by one insider as being “in a state of apoplexy” – and chief operating officer Dominic McKay were fighting to ensure that their final pool game goes ahead.
The Scots’ preferred outcome is to move the game back by 24 hours from its current time of 7.45pm on Sunday in Yokohama, to Monday at the same time. They stress that by then Typhoon Hagibis – whose arrival has already caused two games to be cancelled – is expected to have passed. If, however, their game is cancelled and the result declared a draw, the Scots will almost certainly be eliminated from the tournament at the pool stage.
That unconscionable outcome moved a step nearer on Thursday when Italy’s match against New Zealand on Saturday 12th October, in which the Azzurri needed a bonus point win to advance to the quarter-finals, was summarily cancelled without any prior warning. The Italian coach Conor O’Shea and captain Sergio Parisse were in Tokyo waiting to announce their team to play the All Blacks at 1pm when they received an email at 12.59pm of the draft press release announcing that the game had been cancelled. A senior source in the Scotland squad who spoke to the Italians said that they team management were “utterly heartbroken” by the decision.
n a development that seems sure to cloud the rest of the tournament and have ramifications way into the future, insiders claim that the match between the All Blacks and Italy could have been postponed until Monday, but that the All Blacks were not willing to consider a turnaround of just five days between their final pool game and their quarter-final, which is due to be played on Saturday 19th October.
With England versus France also being postponed, which has angered England coach Eddie Jones and his French counterpart Jacques Brunel, while also affecting the possible outcome in Pool C, Tournament director Alan Gilpin is now insisting that a precedent has been set and that a “one size fits all” approach is the only fair way to proceed.
Describing the situation as “shambolic” and “embarrassing”, a senior spokesman for Scottish Rugby said that World Rugby’s handling of the affair has been disgracefully poor, and that unless it comes to its sense and adheres to its own tournament regulations, the Union will have no choice but to take immediate legal action.
“We’re willing to do whatever it takes to get this game [between Scotland and Japan] on,” said the spokesman. “There are 10,000 Scotland supporters here to see their team play, and for the integrity of the sport and this tournament, we’ve got to find a way to deliver on our undertaking to stage this game.
“World Rugby said three or four months ago that they had contingency plans in place to address any problems or challenges that might occur, and we took them at their word. We now expect them to deploy those contingency plans and ensure this match goes ahead. The fans, players and everyone who loves rugby will demand nothing less. The whole situation is almost beyond belief.”
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NZ’s fault, then. As one would expect.
By the by, Townsend’s comments from the other day when the typhoon looked as if it would be hitting further south in Japan:
“The Ireland game can’t be postponed, it has to be played that day,” he continued. “If it can’t be played that day then it’s two points for each team. Whether it can be played in another venue, I’m not too sure.”
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TomP, do you think Townsend said that to spite Ireland or because he was speaking about the situation as he understood it at the time? Since then he has been made aware of more information.
I know which light you are trying to paint him in, but I wonder if that is the whole story?
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I’m not particularly trying to paint him in any light. He’s just setting out what the tournament rules say.
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He has since been made aware of the Force Majeure clause, and he mentioned it more recently than the quote you used.
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Also, why use a Townsend quote as opposed to a World Rugby one?
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If it is just the rules you wanted to show
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I haven’t seen the force majeure clause so am arguing from ignorance. It’d be a shit way for Scotland to go out – I’m not convinced the game’ll be called off.
I’m mostly reacting to the Italy never had a chance so no problem with cancelling their game comments I’ve seen elsewhere.
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“I’m mostly reacting to the Italy never had a chance so no problem with cancelling their game comments I’ve seen elsewhere.”
I said something along those lines here, but I’ve since had a rethink and it really is a crap way for some big old warhorses to call time on their careers, as well as young ones not gaining valuable experience.
We can all evolve our opinions as we gain new information or give the subject more thought
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https://www.facebook.com/pg/worldrugby/posts/?ref=page_internal
World Rugby facebook page to vent your ire, Ticht. I have just tried to post on it , first time I have used facebook in a number of years. Post seemed to have disappeared in seconds.
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Ticht, it would only take a daft Scott barrett type clearout in the first 5 minutes for Italy to have a chance, that view shouldn’t fly. Doesn’t really matter if it was Namibia vs Canada, or similar, its a disgrace that there is no option for postponement.
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Cheers Tim, but the real villains of the peace here are World Rugby, there is no way they are going to respond or take note of posts on their FB page, what needs to happen is the Unions have to stand up to them and say this is shit, the Italy ABs game has to be played, as well as all the others.
Otherwise we carry on as normal and we become FIFA
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Like I say, I’ve since had a re-evaluation and I really do think that Italy game, and the others, should go ahead.
I was very much mistaken in writing that game off and for more than the reason of the expected result – mea culpa, or summat, I have no problem saying so.
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I’m not persuaded by the thing about players’ retirements etc at all. Some people get to go out the way they want and others don’t, that’s life. I am completely persuaded by the argument that treating one match differently to another because in one of them ‘we all know what was going to happen’ is completely against the whole idea of the tournament itself. They need to find a way to play the matches (assuming that the bigger situation beyond rugby doesn’t turn out to completely preclude this).
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Kirsty MacColl would’ve been 60 today. Her first release:
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And one from her last album. This is a song I’ve long admired:
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I think Steve Bell’s cartoon pretty much says it all:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2019/oct/10/steve-bell-on-trumps-defence-of-us-troops-leaving-syria-cartoon
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Find me an address to write to, Ticht, and I will bombard them. For some bizarre reason, I am getting really upset by this whole thing.
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“I am completely persuaded by the argument that treating one match differently to another because in one of them ‘we all know what was going to happen’ is completely against the whole idea of the tournament itself. ”
That was never the argument put forward, the argument was that the storm was scheduled to hit at the time and place those games were going ahead. That was the whole of it, or at least 99% of it.
The lesser point, which was always a subsidiary one, was that the outcome of those two games could be confidently predicted (I haven’t looked at the odds, but bookies know their stuff) and wouldn’t affect the overall standings and therefore the order of the playoffs.
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However, the Act of God thing has since been put into the mix, that and the fact that apparently when the teams signed up they were told there were contingencies for emergencies.
We can only comment on what we know at a given time, that or not have a blog.
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Aye, that seems to have been a Johnson-level lie.
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@Ticht – I don’t think we really disagree. It is precisely the argument put forward by Conor O’Shea which I agree with that IF the Japan-Scotland match turns out not to be able to be played where and when it is supposed to be then it can’t be rearranged given that this was refused for the other games. i.e. not that Japan-Scotland should be cancelled now just for the grin.
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And obviously the way to resolve that problem should it arise is to rearrange all three games. Though I think the Italy-NZ and England-France games should be rearranged regardless of whether Japan-Scotland goes ahead.
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“I think Steve Bell’s cartoon pretty much says it all:”
There is another one I’ve seen of Trumpo driving a golf buggy over the graves of Kurds who died fighting on our side then and since
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CMW, do you think, all other circumstances being exactly the same as now, that if Scotland’s and Japan’s current standings were reversed, that a way to play the game would be found?
I’m not asking about fairness for Italy or other games etc, just that one question above.
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@Ticht – I’ve no idea whether it would be just as I’ve no idea whether it will be (if necessary) with the way they stand now. I certainly think it should be, just with the proviso that the Italy game happens too, them and NZ being in exactly the same position in their group as Scotland and Japan are.
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CMW, I don’t think you are acknowledging the realpolitik at work here, New Zealand and England are happy enough with the situation as is, they are the big players.
Japan and most of the rugby world would want the game to go ahead under those circumstances, allowances and justifications would be made, Japan v Scotland would go ahead, the other games wouldn’t.
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